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Post by grungy on Jan 12, 2009 8:47:30 GMT -5
No rush, on publishing and it would be extremely appreciated. Thanks Orflo.
Cheers,
Val / grungy
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Jan 12, 2009 9:24:17 GMT -5
In 2007, I decided that I wanted to try to overwinter Kale here. I dug up two (mature) plants from the main garden and brought them up to the Kitchen Herb Garden for the winter. I mulched the plants well with straw and leaves and let nature take it's course.
One lived the other did not. But it grew too large in it's second year for the spot allotted, so I had to remove it from the herb bed.
It was a fun learning experience.
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Jan 12, 2009 10:38:59 GMT -5
here we dig them up in the fall, place them in storage and replant in spring Alan,  I have the exact opposite problem, it seems. I am struggling to get Kohlrabi to flower and set seed. One patch have just passed through their second Spring without flowering. Another patch made a few half-hearted flowers, and I'll be lucky to get 1/2 a dozen seed pods! The only reason for this poor performance that makes sense to me is that they're not getting enough cold during Winter, here... |
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Post by ceara on Feb 2, 2009 11:26:32 GMT -5
Last year I didn't have any trouble transplanting cabbage. They are a small headed green type. They were in a peat 4" square pot and went out after I yanked up finished spinach. Lopped in a few crushed eggshells with some compost and they were happy plants.
I have lots of trouble with broccoli though (always bolts, no matter what I do), but never any trouble with kale, cabbage or swiss chard. I tried the rainbow mix package last year and just my luck only got the yellow stalk. lol Hoping for a pink one this year.
Going to try white kohlrabi this year, just found the seeds. lol Forgot about those. They were backordered when we first ordered them last year so they came late and I didn't put them with the rest of the seeds. *oops*
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Post by Alan on Feb 17, 2009 18:44:15 GMT -5
What type of soil are you panting into Mike? Could be that your tricking them into trying to produce more vegetative material instead of switching over to survival mode and producing seed?
By the way Mike, I forgot to mention on my blog about the corn traveling the ocean before Christopher Columbus, be sure to check out a book called 1421, this will give you a bit of a background about what I was hinting at my friend.
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Post by grunt on Feb 18, 2009 2:58:07 GMT -5
Mike: Cracked idea from the back of my so called brain. Could you dig up one and store it in your fridge for a few weeks in the winter. It might be enough to give it what it seems to be lacking.
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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 11:37:26 GMT -5
Could one of you knowledgeable folk please write me a short article for my blog (you will receive full credit for it) on how to grow and save your own seeds for the brassica family. This is one area where we have grown out seeds for saving yet. Any and all help would be appreciated. Cheers, Val (grungy) Sure. ...I will just make it basic Brassica's fall into 2 major groups for seedsavers, annuals and biennials. these 2 groups each need a different approach to seedsaving. Annual brassicathese are those that if sown January (midwinter) onwards until late spring may go to seed. Many mustards, ch. cabbages, many broccoli, early cauliflower, oriental turnips, are in this class. Biennials (or functionally biennial)These are cabbages, brussel sprouts, kolhrabi, most cauliflower esp. the later ones, rutabaga, most turnips from Europe... etc. These for the most part need to be planted early enough so that when the cool and shortest days of fall start to lengthen again the flowering mechanisms are triggered. There is a fine line sometimes between being big enough and to big ...esp. if you are leaving them to the rigors of the outdoors Since brassica are a dry seed, it is best if they mature in dry weather. From the flower bud to dry seed is anywhere from 40-60 days. Frost can kill the developing embryo in most varieties so this needs to be a frostfree time (mustards excepted). Keep this in mind and plant early enough to accomplish a warm weather flowering and a dry weather maturing. this means getting to know your varieties, and your climate. If you can not get a dry weather maturity, harvest when the pods yellow and let dry down inside... they can be hung from rafters, etc. When the pods are dry the seed can be extracted by vigorously moving the stalks in a beating motion from side to side in a 35 gallon plastic garbage can. The material dumped onto sifting screens, and finally fan winnowed in a wheelbarrow (see my wheat threshing/seedcleaning techniques). ...Air speed on the fan will be lower than used for wheat, ...you drop the seed/trash mix and move your drop to where the seed is going into the barrow, and the trash is going over the lip onto the tarp spread under the barrow (if you have a mishap you can pick up trash and seed and re-clean). For large quantity of threshing proceed as for my wheat threshing techniques. feel free to contact me at any time at atimberline@yahoo.com Tim Peters |
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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 11:40:48 GMT -5
here we dig them up in the fall, place them in storage and replant in spring Alan, I have the exact opposite problem, it seems. I am struggling to get Kohlrabi to flower and set seed. One patch have just passed through their second Spring without flowering. Another patch made a few half-hearted flowers, and I'll be lucky to get 1/2 a dozen seed pods! The only reason for this poor performance that makes sense to me is that they're not getting enough cold during Winter, here... ...you will have to sel for seed production tendency under your growing conditions... I did that with carrots in what was then Zaiire, African... it works. |
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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 11:43:27 GMT -5
Mike: Cracked idea from the back of my so called brain. Could you dig up one and store it in your fridge for a few weeks in the winter. It might be enough to give it what it seems to be lacking. yes... add this treatment to your so-called winter and you should get the flowering Tim Peters |
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Post by ceara on Feb 18, 2009 11:52:58 GMT -5
By the way Mike, I forgot to mention on my blog about the corn traveling the ocean before Christopher Columbus, be sure to check out a book called 1421, this will give you a bit of a background about what I was hinting at my friend. There are stone carvings inside Rosslyn Chapel in Edinburgh Scotland that resemble corn and aloe. The carvings were supposedly dated before Columbus ever set sail. |
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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 12:46:53 GMT -5
Could one of you knowledgeable folk please write me a short article for my blog (you will receive full credit for it) on how to grow and save your own seeds for the brassica family. This is one area where we have grown out seeds for saving yet. Any and all help would be appreciated. Cheers, Val (grungy) Sure. ...I will just make it basic Brassica are basically outcrossers, single plants will not pollenate themselves as a rule. The notable exceptions to this rule are the general classes of Rutabaga, Russian and Siberian Kales, Hot mustards (juncea)... Rutabaga, Russian and Siberian Kales, Hot mustards are easy to inbreed and genetically stabilize by single plant isolations. You may succeed using as little as 1/8th of a mile isolation distance in forested areas. Even when mass pollenated they tend to produce a significant level of inbred seed All other brassica need a minimum of 2 plants in order for pollenation and seed production to take place. Using pairs, checking progeny, then a small massing of 4-20 similars of a given line... is a way to use the bees to accomplish some inbreeding pressure on a variety and true it whatever direction you want. ... otherwise, pick out 4-10 or more similar plants, isolate together and usually that is enough to get good seed of a variety. ...Variation is constantly taking place, so try to isolate it seperately or eliminate it. Brassica's fall into 2 major groups for seedsavers, annuals and biennials. these 2 groups each need a different approach to seedsaving. Under this division are the basic pollenation divisions of (1) B oleracea (cabbage, broc, caulifower, kohlrabi, brus. sprouts, some kales) , (2) B. campetris (turnips, most oriental sweet mustards/greens, chinese cabbage, rapes ...) (3) B juncea (all the hot mustard varieties) , (4)Rutabaga's, (5)Siberian and Russian Kales ... B. oleracea is the free-est from intergression from other groups, the others will cross amoung themselves to one extent or another...it is a case by case thing among the the tribes except for B. oleracea, there is little concrete. Annual brassicathese are those that if sown January (midwinter) onwards until late spring may go to seed. Many mustards, ch. cabbages, many broccoli, early cauliflower, oriental turnips, are in this class. Biennials (or functionally biennial)These are cabbages, brussel sprouts, kolhrabi, most cauliflower esp. the later ones, rutabaga, most turnips from Europe... etc. These for the most part need to be planted early enough so that when the cool and shortest days of fall start to lengthen again the flowering mechanisms are triggered. There is a fine line sometimes between being big enough and to big ...esp. if you are leaving them to the rigors of the outdoors Since brassica are a dry seed, it is best if they mature in dry weather. From the flower bud to dry seed is anywhere from 40-60 days. Frost can kill the developing embryo in most varieties so this needs to be a frostfree time (mustards excepted). Keep this in mind and plant early enough to accomplish a warm weather flowering and a dry weather maturing. this means getting to know your varieties, and your climate. If you can not get a dry weather maturity, harvest when the pods yellow and let dry down inside... they can be hung from rafters, etc. When the pods are dry the seed can be extracted by vigorously moving the stalks in a beating motion from side to side in a 35 gallon plastic garbage can. The material dumped onto sifting screens, and finally fan winnowed in a wheelbarrow (see my wheat threshing/seedcleaning techniques). ...Air speed on the fan will be lower than used for wheat, ...you drop the seed/trash mix and move your drop to where the seed is going into the barrow, and the trash is going over the lip onto the tarp spread under the barrow (if you have a mishap you can pick up trash and seed and re-clean). For large quantity of threshing proceed as for my wheat threshing techniques. feel free to contact me at any time at atimberline@yahoo.com Tim Peters |
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 18, 2009 17:00:07 GMT -5
Ceara - When are you planting your broccoli? I find that if I start mine along with the tomatoes and put out about 4-6 weeks later under bottomless pop bottles (cloches) they usually produce big heads. I find they need a longer period of cold (though anything under 7C after a certain stage is supposed to cause buttoning, premature small head. I haven't had this problem) and can't lack for water.
Spring provides both these conditions.
Telsing.
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Post by ceara on Feb 18, 2009 21:50:51 GMT -5
Telsing When I was growing up my family never planted broccoli, so now that I have my own place I get to try all sorts of stuff.  Anyway I started mine the first time along with the tomatoes and peppers. They did great and all of a sudden bolted. Maybe a cloche would work for us too. |
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Kelly
gardener
Posts: 117
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Post by Kelly on Feb 19, 2009 12:37:44 GMT -5
Okay, so this is my first year growing broccoli and cauliflower - when is sort of a safe temperature to leave them outside at? I know they can be left out earlier than a lot of veggies, but I'm so used to planning and checking temps for my hotter weather plants that I find myself utterly confused as to when the broccoli/cauliflower can be planted outdoors!
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Feb 20, 2009 8:49:26 GMT -5
What type of soil are you panting into Mike? Alan, My soil is clayish. I don't have any trouble from any of the other Brassicas. The Kohlrabis do form seed pods, just very few. It's not a lack of pollinators -- we have at least 6 beehives within 100m. |
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I have the exact opposite problem, it seems. I am struggling to get Kohlrabi to flower and set seed. One patch have just passed through their second Spring without flowering. Another patch made a few half-hearted flowers, and I'll be lucky to get 1/2 a dozen seed pods!
