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Post by ottawagardener on Jan 29, 2009 16:32:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure if he has ever had ripe seeds but I'll send you some Frank when they are ready so you can experiment. Who knows?
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Post by Hristo on Jan 29, 2009 20:27:56 GMT -5
I'm growing it since 2003 when Stephen (Stevil) sent me seeds (true seeds). One plant survived. I really like the taste, but they are not as big as I want to be ;D - one year old up to 3-4 cm. (most are smaller), 2 years old up to 6-7 cm. I'm growing it on high pH soil 7+, only needs some Iron Sulfate in each planting hole, and grows very good. They flower in late september too. In 2008 SSE Yearbook (p. 493-494) were few Apios ameicana listings including LSU selections, but only tubers no seeds. Seed production seems problematic, see www.jstor.org/pss/2444742Based on that, northern, early flowering, seed producing (diploid) accessions are invaluable Stephen, I always thought that the seeds you sent me are your production, and wondered why my plants flower so late, so no chance to ripen here (I suppose they are diploids, because I started them from seed). LMK if you want to send you tubers. |
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Post by utopiate on Jan 29, 2009 22:43:20 GMT -5
I grew both Oikos varieties over the past two seasons not far below the 49th parallel, zone five, but grown in sunken greenhouse containers. They both grew fairly well up trelliswork, but the Hudson wild-type seemed to do better for me. The LSU tuber got a later start perhaps, and barely started some blooms. No blossums from the Hudson. I got a nice mess of tubers from each type, but more from Hudson.. most were from 2 to 6 cm. Good flavor, a bit small, the LSU type might have been a bit gummier in starch texture. They tend to burst open when boiled. I have quite a few buried LSU tubers out under the frozen ground in a tub, and my friend should have the nutty ones still. I'd like to try other varieties people might have. I hear groundnut is very invasive in some areas and would recommend container growing. Id post some pics of the rootwad and tubers if I could figure out how to do that. Having some trouble getting it to work.
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Post by stevil on Jan 30, 2009 3:03:34 GMT -5
Stephen, shall I add some to your wish list? Belgium is more up to the north compared to these southern Canadians.... ;D ;D ;D and I got some kilos left... But I would like to have a variety that flowers earlier as well, no way I can get seeds from september flowers... That's true - yes please, but just a small tuber or two. I don't plan to get into Apios cultivation in a big way - my greenhouse is far too small..... |
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Post by stevil on Jan 30, 2009 3:37:57 GMT -5
I'm growing it since 2003 when Stephen (Stevil) sent me seeds (true seeds). One plant survived. Stephen, I always thought that the seeds you sent me are your production, and wondered why my plants flower so late, so no chance to ripen here (I suppose they are diploids, because I started them from seed). LMK if you want to send you tubers. Hi Hristo! Interesting. Definitely not my seed. If I have too much seed for my own use from other trades or commercial seed, I'll put them on my trade list, so these seed came from somewhere else. I'd actually forgotten that I had tried from seed as well. As far as I remember the seed I sowed didn't germinate, so I'm glad it worked for you! I also found our correspondence and I also sent you the following. Do you still have any of those? Asimina triloba Campanula rapunculus Cotinus coggygria “Royal Purple” Crataegus baroussana Elaeagnus multiflora Physalis pubescens Stevia rebaudiana Pepino I've searched through my seed trading emails (I have kept emails back to 1996 which I think was the first year I made an Internet trade list!) to see if I can find out where I got those seed from. I couldn't find out for sure, but I notice that seed were offered in Majella Larochelle's seed list from 2000! I traded for several years with her at that time, so this is the most likely source. Interestingly, she's in Quebec, but of course no guarantees as to where she got seed from.... Although I don't really have any space, I see a little Apios trial coming on, so yes please to a couple of small tubers! Here's my trade list - send me an email! NB! members.gardenweb.com/members/exch/stevil |
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Post by stevil on Jan 30, 2009 3:46:46 GMT -5
By the way, has anyone ever seen Apios priceana offered - I think there's also an asiatic species... Priceana has a southern range, so even less likely to work here, but it's one more to tick off in my life list of eaten plants  plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=APPR |
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Post by Hristo on Jan 30, 2009 10:55:34 GMT -5
I hear groundnut is very invasive in some areas and would recommend container growing. Maybe this could happen on moist/wet acid soils. I have no any such problems on my alkaline soil. |
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Post by Hristo on Jan 30, 2009 11:26:58 GMT -5
Do you still have any of those? Asimina triloba Campanula rapunculus Cotinus coggygria “Royal Purple” Crataegus baroussana Elaeagnus multiflora Physalis pubescens Stevia rebaudiana Pepino Asimina triloba, Campanula rapunculus, Elaeagnus multiflora, Cotinus coggygria “Royal Purple”, Stevia rebaudiana, Pepino These as I remember didn't germinated Physalis pubescens (you send me and pruinosa) germinated and I still have them Crataegus baroussana - one seed germinated next year (in 2004). Last year it produced it's first fruits - about 1-1.5 cm., red (looks like large C. monogyna), has sweet-sour (refreshing) taste, it is not something extremely tasty, but it is quite good to my taste. I always wondered why Crataegus species (especially North American ones) are so rare and hard to find. I'm sure there are many (not only one or two) species that worth growing. I know even for some European and Asian species (cultivars) with fruits over 3 cm. But they too are very hard to get. And as I know most species intercross easily..................... P.S. This forum needs new category, for the fruits and nuts (usual and unusual) . Are here any NAFEX members? |
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Post by Hristo on Jan 30, 2009 11:47:18 GMT -5
By the way, has anyone ever seen Apios priceana offered Past 6-7 years I have not seen someone to offer seeds or tubers. Even GRIN has no accessions. This is very strange, considering that it is native to USA and considering descriptions like this: (Of OSU site) "Apios Priceana from Kentucky have been described as having showy pale-rose flowers and a solitary tuberous root up to seven inches in diameter" There is no doubt that it is edible. Some even say "delicious" I know it is very rare, but.... I think there's also an asiatic species... Here are listed 18 Apios species (but some are synonyms): www.plantsystematics.org/taxpage/0/genus/Apios.htmlI wonder how many of them are good for eating. As far as I know some are bitter. |
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Post by utopiate on Jan 30, 2009 18:33:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately Apios priceana sounds quite endangered within its former range. I suppose some researchers must have seeding plants and germplasm. It always interested me too, in that it forms a single tuber, not strings of them, and was also formerly eaten.
The Japanese have developed cultivars of Apios americana from introductions a century ago or so. Wish I had more info on this. I also found a web picture of some supposed "Chinese apios", though it could have been from the Japanese cultivars or A. americana, didn't say. I saved the pic because those sample tubers seemed very large and smooth and well formed, like this truly was from a nice cultivar with fat tubers. The site was just some Chinese business interest putting out feelers for supplying interested buyers and it seems to have gone nowhere. Now i cant find it again, but I have the pic.
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Post by Hristo on Jan 30, 2009 20:29:10 GMT -5
Maybe it is not americana, but fortunei which is chinese species that is used as medicinal plant and food. Also the OSU page tells ( food.oregonstate.edu/glossary/g/groundnut.html): "Yet another member of the group (Apios Fortunei) is cultivated in Japan for its egg-shaped little tubers." |
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Post by utopiate on Jan 30, 2009 22:19:39 GMT -5
Could be. Wish I knew. Cant even recall if they were being promoted for medicinal or food value at this point, but they certainly looked like a well developed cultivar. Will try to find more info on Asian cultivated species. That Oregon State Food Website often has some glaring mistakes though is what I have found.
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Post by utopiate on Jan 30, 2009 22:53:48 GMT -5
Case in point on that groundnut page.... where shes talking about Lewis and Clark and the pomme de terre of the French and Souix. I'm pretty sure that that is Psoralea esculenta the prairy turnip, which they encountered often, not the Apios. The same name may apply to Apios in other regions ( though I don't know this) but they were out on the plains and prairies once they got up to the Sioux, and this was almost certainly Psoralea, which was a staple carbohydrate of the plains tribes.
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Post by utopiate on Jan 31, 2009 0:07:52 GMT -5
I should correct myself here before someone else does.. ehem, since I found that entry about Apios in the Lewis and Clark Journals. They did eat and write about it, and it does range up the Missouri river bottomland into the Dakotas probably to where they encountered the Sioux.
"[T]hese they boil with meat or pound and make an agreeable bread…[T]his pittaitoee may be used in it's green or undryed state without danger provided it be well roasted or boiled." Dried groundnuts kept for several eyars."
That is indeed Apios americana, but written not up with the Sioux but down with the Kickapoo in Illinois where the boats were being built and the river trip just getting started. The expedition may well have eaten this farther up into Missouri River drainage though, it growing along the creek and river bottomlands. Other entries later, do describe Psoralea esculenta but as Pommes Blanc, the prairy apple, though I do find references to it as the pommes de terre, from other explorers. I suppose it depended upon whose Frenchmen were being quoted and how far out on the plains they were as to which plant was meant.
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Post by orflo on Jan 31, 2009 13:34:30 GMT -5
And has anybody found or grown apios fortunei???This seems to be also used for tea brewing, I wondder if the other apios species are used in that way as well... www.freepatentsonline.com/JP3510930.htmlOK, time for some action: find apios priceana and fortunei (that one is on my list for more than two years) , some book I read , it could have been Joy Larkcom but I'm not sure, talked about a 'sweet potato taste' but it also mentioned it was quite unproductive ?? Talking of psoralea, I have got some seeds left (Stephen, yours will be sent monday or tuesday, they prefer a stratification period), I think just for one person, anyone interested??? |
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