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Post by stevil on Jan 31, 2009 15:21:28 GMT -5
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Post by Hristo on Jan 31, 2009 16:38:51 GMT -5
I think that I read somewhere that very high yeilding cultivars had been developed in Japan, as high yeilding as potatoes. That is from 1998. Does someone is in touch with Ken Fern, to ask him what happen with these varieties? Steve, post your image of the Japanese Apios. It seems to me that it is fortunei, because looks very much like it: www.plant.ac.cn/dan_tu/14/11275.htm |
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Post by Hristo on Jan 31, 2009 16:40:02 GMT -5
Oops, seems you deleted your post!
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Post by utopiate on Jan 31, 2009 16:58:11 GMT -5
Missouri Botanical Garden curators have seeds from Apios priceana in seedbanks, or at least they refer to them in this page. They are from wild and garden material. So somebody has it in their garden somewhere. But I doubt anyone can access the seedbanks... except maybe Frank. www.centerforplantconservation.org/ASP/CPC_ViewProfile.asp?CPCNum=149 |
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Post by utopiate on Jan 31, 2009 17:25:10 GMT -5
[img src="http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7470/chineseapiosfromprospecqa5.jpg" ![]() By utopiate at 2009-01-31][/img] Nice form to these tubers. They almost look like Chaerophyllum bulbosum, except for seeing the globose and ovoid ones too. Presumably this is cultivated in and exported from China or Taiwan. What is it, A. fortunei or A. american, or what? I suspect it is Apios americana... since it seems to be a processed foods site, but it could be for medicinals too. There is medicinal interest in A. americana in the orient also. Could this be from the Japanese plant improvements and then grown in China? |
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Post by plantsnobin on Jan 31, 2009 20:12:58 GMT -5
Tripple Brook Farm has this available for $9.95, some from their local area, and some from LSU breeding stock, according to their website-I haven't ordered from them before, but it is very hard to find any place that sells this in the US.
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Post by utopiate on Feb 1, 2009 14:27:37 GMT -5
Rootwad and tubers from Oikos Hudson groundnut, a wild form. [im  By utopiate, shot with Canon PowerShot A700 at 2009-02-01g][/img] Apios americana sources USA... Oikos Tree Crops, Tripplebrook Farm, Sand Mountain Herbs, and a few others around the web. |
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Post by stevil on Feb 1, 2009 16:36:38 GMT -5
Looks about the size I get in a good year.
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Post by stevil on Feb 9, 2009 6:32:36 GMT -5
One of the very best North American foraging books in my opinion is Sam Thayer's "The Foragers Harvest" (2006).
This has 10 pages on Apios americana and an additional 2 pages giving a warning about "Hopniss allergy" - of the hundreds of people he has fed them to over the years, 5 had quite severe reactions to it (i.e., he notes that this is quite a large number) (somebody else mentioned this earlier).
Hopniss is his preferred name for the plant. He shows a picture of his "Hop-ness monster" which is the largest he has found at 28 cm long and 15 cm wide! However, he states that they are best
when medium-sized. He also finds that they are most productive in "spring seepage areas" (I presume that such areas are permanently damp).
He also refers to Apios priceana, which produces one large tuber rather than a chain of several, but shouldn't be collected he warns due to its scarcity.
There's also 8 pages on his experiences with Hog Peanut.
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 9, 2009 9:46:02 GMT -5
Sounds like a book I'd definitely be interested in reading.
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mostlypurple
grub
SE Michigan, Kitchen garden, Z 5b-6a
Posts: 86
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Post by mostlypurple on Feb 9, 2009 9:58:19 GMT -5
Me too...except my local library is severely lacking. Hmm. Maybe I should try tasting one and make sure there's no allergy problem before I invest. But as far as "spring seepage" goes, there's no shortage of that here  . Should have no problem with cultivation. |
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Post by utopiate on Feb 9, 2009 11:44:17 GMT -5
I'll try to check that book out. I think I read an online treatment of Hopniss by him, very well written, extensive, and informative. Some thoughts here on why Apios hasn't become popular as a crop, in spite of its seeming potential. I'm not disparaging the plant here, its just a matter of curiosity to me why some plants catch on and others remain obscure, and by most reports Apios would seem to have some of the highest potential as a new crop-plant, yet has still not managed to make it. It certainly seems like a good potential crop plant, and for any foragager or Native American harvester in former times, one can easily see the appeal as a major carbohydrate source. They bear far better than most wild tubers, producing a crop in one season, of fairly good flavor. That being said, the drawbacks remaining seem significant: First and foremost, it seems to me that it's about impossible to compete with potatoes, if a plant resembles them too closely in flavor. I like Apios, but those I have eaten I'd describe as having a mild potato-like flavor, perhaps a bit too mild. Some people state they like them better than potatoes, but realisticly I wonder if the novelty factor is at play here. This resemblence puts it at a disadvantage in that it doesn't seem to offer enough flavor difference, in my opinon, to compete in its own catagory, for example as in comparing the flavor of sweet potato to ordinary potatoes. Nutritionally it sounds superior with much higher protein. Other drawbacks to domestication are the long vining habit needing support. Tuber size in one season still not large enough, and yields (at least in my growing season) still not significantly high enough. Invasive aspects. The allergic reactive issue. Cooking and texture problem in that it bursts open when boiled. Still quite edible, but a bit harder to deal with and an aesthetic issue. Sticky latex also makes handling and utensil cleaning more effort. Of coarse the whole lack of marketing, crop promotion, cultural familiarity part would play a significant role here. Lots of other tubers and root-crops in no way compete with potatoes in terms of yield, but are still fairly popular. I wonder if their more distinctive flavors and textures, plus the manageable growth habits are the big advantages over Apios Sagittaria (the non-bitter forms) seems to have a much more distinctive flavor than Apios and when compared to currently popular root crops would be more appealing and considered better eating than a lot of them, in my opinion. Of course, it has its drawbacks too, many the same (size, yield), and is additionally disadvantaged by being of aquatic growth habit.  By utopiate at 2009-02-09 Bursting habit of boiled Apios americana. |
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Post by stevil on Feb 10, 2009 4:13:55 GMT -5
I'll try to check that book out. I think I read an online treatment of Hopniss by him, very well written, extensive, and informative. Yes that's a good description of his work! First and foremost, it seems to me that it's about impossible to compete with potatoes, if a plant resembles them too closely in flavor. I like Apios, but those I have eaten I'd describe as having a mild potato-like flavor, perhaps a bit too mild. Some people state they like them better than potatoes, but realisticly I wonder if the novelty factor is at play here. This resemblence puts it at a disadvantage in that it doesn't seem to offer enough flavor difference, in my opinon, to compete in its own catagory, for example as in comparing the flavor of sweet potato to ordinary potatoes. Nutritionally it sounds superior with much higher protein. Cooking and texture problem in that it bursts open when boiled. Still quite edible, but a bit harder to deal with and an aesthetic issue. Just one quick comment. Concerning taste, Thayer says "The flavor of hopniss has been likened to turnips.....I would say that the flavor of this vegetable is somewhere between peanuts and potatoes, but unique and distinct" |
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 10, 2009 7:53:23 GMT -5
Frank: psoralea - hand raised. ;D (only if you have enough. Usual request - just 10 seeds or so. I just got some from another source as well but if you have enough, I'd be interested in trying the two sources).
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Post by utopiate on Feb 10, 2009 15:24:53 GMT -5
Psoralea?? Did Frank grow some? Or do you mean his Apios? I've been curious about Psoralea for some time. Mine are just opening cotyledons?
Back on Apios, flavor appeal and description is certainly going to be highly variable between different people of course. I would place the flavor closer to that of potato but definately with some turnip in there. Perhaps its the texture too, causing me to associate it more with potatoes. I do tend to mix the flavor/texture complex when making comparisons. Anyway, for Apios this flavor may be distinctive, but I didn't really find it distinctive "enough" to raise on a larger scale. But then I'm a type not wild about turnips either. Thayer clearly likes his Apios a lot, and for the forager, I certainly agree that it's one of the best wild-harvested carbohydrate staples in N. America.
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. Should have no problem with cultivation.