Brassicaceae breeding

[raymondo]

I've got a couple of projects I'd like to get underway in this marvellous family but to date have had no luck getting the cultivars I want to cross to flower simultaneously.
I'd like to cross Green Glaze (or Southern Greasy) collard with some other Brassica oleracea cultivars to transfer the glossy leaf. I'm looking at the moment just to cross it with other collards and some cabbages. The Green Glaze flowered as expected when spring arrived but the other brassicas just kept going without producing flowers at all. Okay, there's probably not much I can do about that apart from noting when the others finally decide to flower so I will have a better idea of timing.
I also have some red cabbage (why do they call it red cabbage when it's purple?) I'd like to cross into some collards because the Cabbage White Butterfly (Pieris rapae), whose larvae are a major pest of brassicas here, isn't very interested in red cabbages. The red cabbage forms a tight head. I've read that you need to cut through the tight head to allow the flower scape to grow. How does one know when to do this? And how do you decide how deep to cut?
Any help with these two issues, timing and cabbage flowering, would be very much appreciated.
And I've just remembered another question. Is there a list somewhere of which brassicas cross with which? For example, I have some B. carinata. Can I let it set seed alongside some B. oleracea? Or will the two cross?

[ottawagardener]

I have a goofy question so laugh if you want and then it would be kind if you could answer.

Can you save pollen for later fertilization?

Are you done laughing at me?

As for red cabbage, I'm no expert on this - may I repeat - I am no expert but if it is the second flowering after the head has been cut, from the 'baby heads' they have no problem emerging. So if you continue to have trouble, it's just a thought. My red cabbage often survive several years before flowering from these smaller, loose heads.

It's true that I rarely find catepillars on my red cabbage. The greasy look to the leaves, does that provide a pest resistance?

Telsing.

[mybighair]

I think I mentioned this in another post, but you can store pollen in the freezer for about a year in an air tight container (old film canisters are good) or it will stay viable in the fridge for a few months.

You just collect the pollen in the canister, label it, allow it to dry for a day, then seal the canister and place it in the fridge or the freezer until you need it. Just remember to allow the canister to rest for an hour or so after removing it from cold storage. It prevents condensation that would spoil the pollen.

I use this method a lot in my rose breeding to cross species that flower at different times.

[raymondo]

Telsing, a good suggestion, confirmed by mybighair. Thank you both. It's certainly worth a try. I have no idea how to go about collecting brassica pollen nor how to emasculate buds. Some new challenges await.
I had, cleverly I thought, planted one Green Glaze amid the other brassicas and sat back to see my plan unfold. Mother nature likes her little jokes though. The other brassicas, as I said, didn't flower.
Ah, the side cabbages. Thank you again Telsing. Another good suggestion. Perhaps I could lop the main growing tip off and make it branch early to encourage flowering sooner.
I think it may be a combination of colour and 'greasiness' that deters the butterfly. I guess I'll have to wait another year to find out!

[canadamike]

You shake it on top of a container, tap on it, whatever will have it fall into it.

[mybighair]

You can also remove the anthers from open flowers with tweezers, put them in the container, and allow them to dry foe a day with the top off.

Then you put the top on, shake vigorously to release the pollen, then take the top back off and gently turn the anthers out. The static in the nylon container holds the majority of the pollen (the interior is usually visibly yellow at this point) well enough to prevent it from falling out.

Then you just seal up the container and freeze/refrigerate. You can then use a small, soft, artists paintbrush to apply the defrosted pollen when the flowers are ready.

[johno]

Alkapuler has a new release called Steely Green kale, which was bred with the same intent - to transfer the "greasy" trait. I think it was Green Glaze X Lacinato, but hopefully alkapuler will elaborate... I purchased some seed and will be trying it out in this climate soon. The cabbage pests are terrible here, so I hope it grows well in my microclimate and does its job!

I wish I could be of more help through my experience, but I'm still learning a lot about brassicas. I can recommend the perfect book for you, though - Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties by Carol Deppe. You'll find very detailed information about the crossing you want to do there.

[grunt]

Just a thought, but if you were to harvest a cabbage roots and all, overwinter it, and plant it out again in the spring, would it not immediately start to send up a seed flowering stalk that might coincide with the collards?

[raymondo]

canadamike and mybighair, thanks fo rthe helpful hints. I'll try it.

Johno, I am into my fifth or sixth reading of Carol Deppe's book. It's the best gardening book I've ever purchased.

grunt, overwintering is also worth a try.

[ottawagardener]

Ray, I'm with you. I love, love, love my copy of Carol Deppe's Breed your Own Vegetables. Required reading for the edible enthusiast.

[atimberline]

Feb 14, 2009 5:39:13 GMT -5 raymondo said:

I've got a couple of projects I'd like to get underway in this marvellous family but to date have had no luck getting the cultivars I want to cross to flower simultaneously.
I'd like to cross Green Glaze (or Southern Greasy) collard with some other Brassica oleracea cultivars to transfer the glossy leaf. I'm looking at the moment just to cross it with other collards and some cabbages.
I also have some red cabbage (why do they call it red cabbage when it's purple?) I'd like to cross into some collards because the Cabbage White Butterfly (Pieris rapae), whose larvae are a major pest of brassicas here, isn't very interested in red cabbages. The red cabbage forms a tight head. I've read that you need to cut through the tight head to allow the flower scape to grow. How does one know when to do this? And how do you decide how deep to cut?
Any help with these two issues, timing and cabbage flowering, would be very much appreciated.
And I've just remembered another question. Is there a list somewhere of which brassicas cross with which? For example, I have some B. carinata. Can I let it set seed alongside some B. oleracea? Or will the two cross?

Hi Raymond,
...I have lots of green glaze crosses... but it has been 10-11 years since I have been able to grow them out. ...some of the seed germed last summer when temps were warm... some of progeny of the red crosses are incredibly beautifyl... like crystal... esp those also crossed to the flowering kales and cabbages... I had/have a lot of dreams in the works ...

...anyhow, to get the crosses made, plant early so that come your shortest day of winter the plants are large. On cabbages cut off the head but leave as many large leaves as possible, side shoots will shoot out seed stalks. Cutting the heads late fall is often better than later. ...Things that tend to flower later should be given a dose of gib. acid about the shortest day of year, and then once a month for the next couple of months, this usually speeds up the flowering time. The early flowering things can be cut back once or twice and will go into another round of flowering, extending the normal flower time to a much later date... you should get some crossover.

...hope this helps you succeed... keep in touch.
Tim Peters

[atimberline]

Feb 14, 2009 15:52:41 GMT -5 raymondo said:

Telsing, a good suggestion, confirmed by mybighair. Thank you both. It's certainly worth a try. I have no idea how to go about collecting brassica pollen nor how to emasculate buds. Some new challenges await.
I had, cleverly I thought, planted one Green Glaze amid the other brassicas and sat back to see my plan unfold. Mother nature likes her little jokes though. The other brassicas, as I said, didn't flower.
Ah, the side cabbages. Thank you again Telsing. Another good suggestion. Perhaps I could lop the main growing tip off and make it branch early to encourage flowering sooner.
I think it may be a combination of colour and 'greasiness' that deters the butterfly. I guess I'll have to wait another year to find out!

....don't bother emasculating flowers just strip off open flowers up to large unopened buds,pinch off all but 3-5 of the largest when you pinch off the stem tip. Prick them open on tip with your nail, holding bud with fingers of other hand, take pollen shedding flower of male parent (about mid-morning to 1 pm is good pollen time , unless bees are very active) and wipe anthers across the pistil tip... cover with a pollenation envelope (you must make) ...or just put a note on a slip of masking tape put just under the buds on the stem.

it's simple... I can remember getting a crew of kindergardeners to help me once upon a time...
Tim Peters

[raymondo]

Thanks for the tips Tim. Makes it seem run-of-the-mill.

[Alan]

Hello Raymondo,

I am currently trying to work out a cross between "greasy" collards and the Yellow Cabbage Collards that CFF was kind enough to send me from the Collard Shack. Basically looking for the loose heading collard trait and large plants but with glossy leaf traits for the same insect resistance that you are speaking of, it has also crossed my mind to make some red cabbage crosses to these lines in the future, this is all speculative however as the first two crosses haven't been made yet and won't until this year when they flower in the spring.

As echoed above by Telsing, Tim, and My Big Hair, there are several ways to overwinter and entice cabbage and brassica crops into blooming. Here we tend to dig the plants late in the fall, put them into pots, and then in a cool dark place, at the earliest oporotunity in the fall we plant them out, let them set some roots, and then split the head down the middle with a corn knife which entices them to bloom at the same time, in this way we eliminate the need for hand pollination when two or sometimes more types are planted and flowering at the same time and allowed to cross via natural methods.

As stated above, you can also cut the head and allow the new sprouts to shoot out but they often don't flower at the same time for me which is why I have found it easier to plant entire heads with the stem and then split them in the spring.

Hope this helps buddy, keep us up to date on your project!

[atimberline]

Feb 17, 2009 6:33:20 GMT -5 raymondo said:

Thanks for the tips Tim. Makes it seem run-of-the-mill.

you are welcome... and re. Alan's comments', ...to bypass the hand pollenation all together , to get more F1 seed, let the bees do it ... just isolate 2 plants (most are self-incompatible), 1 of each somewhere. All you have to do is make sure there are some flowers of each happening at the same time. ...if you have to cut back a plant to get it to flower again later, don't cut it more than halfway as cutting to close to the stump causes a reversal to the juvenile state of the plant, reproductive activity may cease altogether. ...miserable experience talking.

Make sure you go ahead on your own project... each project is going to be different to some degree, and even if they were all red, it wouldn't surprise me if they were all significantly different... besides, anothers project may fail for some unforseen problem.

...I remember 25 years ago Alfred Christenson Seed had a lot of glossy breeding work that looked fantastic... and I thought, am i spinning my wheels to get into breeding glossy stuff? ...but look, it just disappeared, it has never come to the public... and me... who knows if i will ever recover... so forge ahead, guys! I for one would love to see your work.
Tim Peters