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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 10:09:45 GMT -5
....there was also a lot of great glossy stuff developed at W. Virginia St. Tech. that just became unseen, unknown history... some of it was the best eating greens I ever ate... sadness...
Tim Peters
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Post by canadamike on Feb 18, 2009 10:14:08 GMT -5
Can somebody show me a picture of the yellow collard? Hayne told me it was truly yellow....mine were a lighter shade of green....
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Post by atimberline on Feb 18, 2009 10:32:31 GMT -5
Can somebody show me a picture of the yellow collard? Hayne told me it was truly yellow....mine were a lighter shade of green.... ...your soil is to healthy mike... they couldn't help but be light green |
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Post by raymondo on Feb 19, 2009 5:29:05 GMT -5
Can't imagine it being truly yellow. Where's the chlorophyll?
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Post by raymondo on Feb 25, 2010 5:46:48 GMT -5
An update:
I managed to get the Green Glaze collards and the red cabbage to flower simultaneously thanks to Telsing's suggestion of cutting off the cabbage head (ate it lightly sautéed with apples and a sprinkling lemon juice ... yum). Now I'm sowing seeds from each so I'm hoping to have GG X Red F1 and Red X GG F1. Unfortunately, and I'm kicking myself now, the red cabbage was a bought seedling so it was almost certainly an F1 hybrid as most commercial crops are these days. This means that any selfings (do they self?) will be segregating. It gets worse. Not 2m from these plants was my broccoli patch and I let them flower too. Well, if nothing else, there should be some pretty crossed up material in there but quite how I'm going to find a glossy purple collard is a mystery at this point.
My plan now is just to plant out as much as space allows and see what develops over the autumn and winter. Any interesting things I'll move to another location and let them cross as they want. The rest will be food or mulch I guess.
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Post by canadamike on Feb 25, 2010 6:19:46 GMT -5
They are self incompatible, so you have that part of the equation solved..for the rest, it might end up being much more fun than expected.
So it would be a genetic weakness and not a true trait, Tim? I mean it would be a gene that is an environmental switch of some sort, difficulty to produce chlorophyle in normal conditions, instead of a true ''color gene''?
Tim, do you know if bud pollination can help in prunus breeding of incompatible species?
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Post by raymondo on Mar 25, 2010 22:46:53 GMT -5
The F1s from the red cabbage/Green Glaze collards cross are a mixed bag. From the seed collected from Green Glaze I'm seeing both dull and shiny green seedlings and from the red cabbage seed I'm seeing dull red or perhaps dull green and shiny green seedlings. Of course there's the dull green broccoli to take into account so I probably have the following F1s:
Green Glaze x Broccoli Baby
Green Glaze x red cabbage
red cabbage x Broccoli Baby
red cabbage x Green Glaze
I'll plant out 50 or thereabouts. Since I have no real idea of the genetics involved I can't really determine which is which, but that doesn't matter. It's the next generation I'm interested in. By then, I hope to have enough space to plant around 100 of the F2s. That should be a reasonably good place to start selecting from. I'll be looking for plants that remain tender over my winter and have minimal aphid and/or caterpillar damage.
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Post by ottawagardener on Apr 6, 2010 20:02:36 GMT -5
Interesting project to follow. If you can take pictures, I'd like to see them.
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Post by raymondo on Apr 13, 2010 7:05:15 GMT -5
Some pics. This is Green Glaze X red cabbage F1. Note the purple/red tones and the matt leaves.  Compare the above to red cabbage X Green Glaze F1. This time the glossy leaf is present as well as purple tones in the stem, petioles and leaf veins.  The fact that the phenotype depends on which is the seed parent and which the pollen parent doesn't surprise me. What is interesting though is the fact that the glossy leaf doesn't show up when GG is the seed parent, only when it is the pollen parent. Haven't quite got my head round that one yet. And Green Glaze, just for comparison, showing the expected glossy leaf with green stem, petioles and leaf veins.  |
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Post by ottawagardener on Apr 13, 2010 16:44:47 GMT -5
Great pictures. A default mechanism where only 'male' gene is expressed for that trait? No idea but very interesting.
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Post by grunt on Apr 14, 2010 0:00:26 GMT -5
Raymondo: Keep a close eye on that red matte finish, and see if it gives the plant any extra insect protection. all other things being equal, that might be a worthwile extra.
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Post by raymondo on Apr 15, 2010 15:29:22 GMT -5
There are some glossies among the GG X red cabbage. I just didn't pick up on the glossy leaf at first.
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Post by raymondo on Jan 16, 2012 20:59:48 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned elsewhere that I planted a small patch of collards, red cabbage, savoy cabbage and Cavolo Nero all together. Well, the seeds are harvested, all kept separate. I sowed some seeds of one of the collards, grown next to a red cabbage and a savoy cabbage, and pricked out about 40 plants, selecting a number of reddish seedlings. I've also got about 40 seedlings of the red/glossy mix that I created a while back. I've also sown the Cavolo Nero seeds, there weren't many, to see what emerges. Of the 100 or so plants I'll have, I'll plant out the most interesting looking ones, up to about 30 or so plants to both eat and collect seed from. Should be all sorts of things segregating from this lot in years to come.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 17, 2012 13:39:45 GMT -5
Ray, I think you send be some GreenGlazeXRed Cabbage F2? The seedlings were showing the whole gamut of color and glaze options. Dull reds, glossy reds, dull greens, glossy greens, and then dull and glossy greens with red veins and petioles. I culled pretty hard to get just glossy reds. They are overwintering under a low hoop and hopefully I will have some F3 seed next summer. I didn't actually have time to grow them out to full size before winter, so I wasn't able to select for height or yield but I figure there are quite a few plants there and I should be able to find most of what I'm looking for in a larger grow-out.
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Post by raymondo on Jan 17, 2012 15:15:46 GMT -5
Yes, it was F2 I sent you. Glad to hear you're getting something interesting out of them. They will be segregating for heading and non-heading as well as colour and glossiness so you may see a few cabbages in among your plants.
I really don't know what to expect from my latest brassica mix. Any ideas what the F1 of a collard/savoy cabbage might look like? I don't know the genetics of the savoy leaf so don't know whether it will disappear in the F1 or not. I found a reference to a wrinkled leaf trait, which is dominant, but whether that's savoy or not I don't know. Time will tell. I suppose I should sow some savoy cabbage seeds as a comparison but I have already filled one entire patch with brassicas, or will have once I plant out the seedlings I've got.
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