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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 19, 2009 15:55:40 GMT -5
I'm dreaming of my future farm and wondering how to grow foods, clear land etc... with the least amount of effort while staying organic of course.
One thing I had wanted to do was to use animals, goats, and pigs etc... to 'clear' shrub land.
Another thing I was toying with is to grow some staples as a polyculture similar to the three sisters. Thoughts of this skip across my mind so I have to do a lot more reading but I imagine growing pulses and grains together.
Dreams...
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 19, 2009 17:08:17 GMT -5
Ive been thinking of similar things as well. One thing I thought I might mention is edible grasses. I bought 7 grasses with "edible" seeds. Three I actually believe them because the seeds are grain sized, one actually the seed is rice size. Im very curious to see how well they will work as a grain, but it seems promising. I cooked a spoonful of each and they all seemed to be as good as other types of cereal grains.
they are indian rice grass, sand dropseed, and one call ed "panic grass" from native seeds. I planted all three this year, sand dropseed didnt germinate AT ALL so I tried in cups, it germinated then died off right away. So I guess it actually NEED sand which I dont have. the other two are growing well.
the reason I bother to mention it is, These are drought tolerant abusable perennial grains, with no effort needed save for a yearly harvest, beside planting it to begin with. If anything having a patch of it off on the side, of some land just in case other crops failed which is how tribes of the past in these areas used it, would be invaluable.
I live in a rough area, but one day I inten to have a permacultured place myself, another interesting one, Im not sure if it is hardy in your zone is honey locust trees. I guess with a grove of 20 of them you can sustainably harvest firewood for a family. Without ever cutting down a tree. They also provide hordes of bean like nuts. In pods not edible I think but still full of sugar, maybe used as a sweetener?
another that would grow for you is a peashrub- or caranga I think. None of these are super tasty is my guess, but they will manage themselves and provide the nutrients we need, when other crops might fail. Some people seem to have an aversion to the peashrub, I guess it can be invasive, but a invasive plant with lots of edible seeds, doesnt sound to bad to me. I have seeds still being stratified in my fridge for peashrub I have three or four varieties. I cant wait to see what they do.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 19, 2009 19:03:39 GMT -5
I really want dropseed. Is that the same as sand dropseed?
I have a further constraint in that my youngest is celiac but most of these things are great!
Peashrub definitely attracts me and I tried seeding it but it didn't germinate for me. As for honey locus, some varieties do grow here and it's on my list of wants!
My list is actually very, very l ong and I should post it one of these days. It seems to get longer all the time. Of course, sometimes I try things and they don't work.
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Post by plantsnobin on Jul 19, 2009 20:53:53 GMT -5
Telsing, do you have a place found already, or are you still looking? Goats certainly are good at helping clear land, they love briar-y type stuff. They can be tethered if you will be around to make sure they don't get tangled up, or you can use temporary electric fence. Pigs will root out an area too if you want it completely cleared. I guess it would just depend on what it is you are needing to get rid of which animal would be most help to you. I know that you are an experienced gardener, but sometimes it can be a little different in the country. Just keep in mind that any plant that is 'easy' usually comes at a price. I know that the peashrub is banned in some areas. I know that some people don't think any plant should be banned, but they are probably people who have not had to try to remove such plants. Around here russian or autumn olive is a problem. Sure, it fixes nitrogen and the birds love the berries. But it will grow anywhere, not just in a field that has been compromised. They have thorns that hurt for weeks. There are other plants that will fix nitrogen and feed the birds that don't become troublesome. Just research before you plant. It is one thing to weed a small strip of land in town, another thing to try to weed an acre. Honey locust can be useful, but chose the site carefully. It will come up from roots many, many feet from the original. I have several types of grasses, such as Sporobolus heterolepis, Panicum virgatum-Dallas Blues & Shenandoah, Chasmanthium latifolium, Calamarostis 'Karl Foerster and Andropogon gerardii.
Post a want list and I will see if I can help you with anything.
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 19, 2009 23:04:12 GMT -5
yeah sand dropseed is what I meant, a company plantsofthesouwthwest.com sells it that and indian rice grass by the pound. I cant seem to get the dropseed to do well myself.
As for the invasiness factor of peashrub and honey locust, seems fine to me. I can go through every couple of years, and rip out the invaders, rather then spend EVERY year growing beans and such, that is If I end up finding them a suitable substitute. Otherwise, I will just keep a few plants of each as a backup food source for tougher years, when my tastier beans and grains fail.
Funny you mention russian olives, I intend to try those out as well. lol. You said birds love them, arent their fruits edible to humans also? I might not bother if it isnt, I will have to check it out.
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Post by plantsnobin on Jul 20, 2009 9:46:09 GMT -5
The fruit of the russian olive is so small that I can't see how it would be worth the trouble, plus the thorns really do hurt. I have resisted planting sea buckthorn for that reason, I don't want to plant something that I am going to regret. It may seem an easy thing to 'rip out the invaders', but it isn't with some plants. One person could not eradicate even a half acre of russian olive in a years time without a tractor. And with plants that birds like, they will spread the seed far and wide, causing problems for more people than just the person who planted it in the first place. Of course a plant that is a problem in one area isn't always a problem in a different climate.
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 20, 2009 12:32:13 GMT -5
It is very arid here, the honey locust should be fine, I see others with them here, the peashrub, and oliv eI might have to actually care for, but here in town, at my house that is no issue. As for the honey locus I hope it does spread real fast. and the grasses as well. save me time having to spread them myself. But I doubt I will bother with the russian olive since its so small. The peashrub I intend to see if the four varieties I have hold some genes that accept drought.....
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Post by plantsnobin on Jul 20, 2009 16:47:05 GMT -5
SS, are you familiar with Plants for a Future? It's pfaf.org if you aren't. They have a good database of edible or otherwise useful plants. There are tons of things that are edible that most people have growing already and just don't realize that they could be eating . Of course, there can be a big difference between edible and palatable. But pfaf is a good place to start. I have to say that of the things I have munched on so far from my flower garden, that I see why the majority of our diets come from maybe 10 or so species though.
I would suggest that everyone look into 'The Permaculture Activist' mag. I have an old issue, just ordered several more back issues today. I hope that it hasn't gone the way of The Mother Earth News and Rodale's Organic Gardening mags. I will let everyone know when I receive them if it is still worth subscribing. They cover a broad range of topics that may be of interest to you. Though I do have some issues with the term Permaculture. The idea of permanent agriculture did NOT start with Bill Mollison in Australia-the term had already been in print since at least 1902. Read Farmers of Forty Centuries sometime. Good stuff. I'll quit ranting now.
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 20, 2009 17:22:34 GMT -5
plantsnobin karen, thanks for the link, I looked for something like this and couldnt find a good source, of info.
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Post by grunt on Jul 21, 2009 0:42:16 GMT -5
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 21, 2009 1:38:14 GMT -5
grunt thagt is a interestin link for arid ardeners toconsider thanks.
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 22, 2009 2:14:25 GMT -5
ottawagardener, I will trade some sand dropseed, do you have anything to trade. I have over a pound of it, lol. Im going to buy some sand so I can grow some, but I think it needs sand, because mine will germinate, then die right off.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 22, 2009 7:25:43 GMT -5
Sure, was there anything you were looking for? I have recently harvested scorzonera seed but it may have been a bit immature (the stalks were broken over) and salsify.
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 22, 2009 9:11:17 GMT -5
Im not sure I guess, I have some salsify though, so I dont need that...... Im looking for various short season things. Long keepers of various things as well. Long keeping potatoes, onions, melons, or short season anything,, or.... I dont know, lol.
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spud
gopher
Posts: 43
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Post by spud on Jul 22, 2009 22:01:24 GMT -5
Gardening is such a different mindset from farming. All I could think of farming is pasturing animals and a garden similar to one I have now.
Joel Salitin seems to have good ideas on larger acreages without the infrastructure of the typical American farm.
I guess I'm soiled on my day job.
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