Apple Bush?

[castanea]

See if you can find someone who layers apple trees. Then ask them which varieties layer easiest and best. Then buy a grafted version of that tree and make your own layers. If apples are like other fruit and nut trees, there may be varieties that layer easily and other varieties that won't layer at all.

There are various fruit and nut trees that tend to breed true. The best thing to do is find an expert on a fruit, someone who works with a fruit or someone who loves a fruit, and ask them what tends to breed true. Prunes for example tend to breed fairly true when pollnized by other prunes.

I don't know if any of the Indian peaches are still around. Unfortunately many of those Indian peach orchards were cut down by whites.

[silverseeds]

the peach orchards here actually died back in the 50s due to unusally cold period. There might be another orchard, but the one my book highlights, was at zuni pueblo. They ignored it for decades, and some researcher cam in the 90s, and realised that entire time the tree wer enot completely dead, and cut them back and added berms for better water retention. three years later they had a feild of peach bushes.

There was still one family who carried on the peaches after that period. I guess I could go to zuni when peaches would be ready, and see if I find any local ones for sale.

I never heard of anyone hurting their trees, but of course much of that dirty story remains hidden. I do know many of the tribes were forced to work the orchards for the spainish along the rio grande. Those trees apparently the same ones are still alive. Or atleast new trees growing in the same places.

[flowerpower]

silverseeds, you could try asking redbrick over at Idig about the grafting. He is an apple expert. I could save you seed from some wild apples. But there are tons of old trees in the area. I doubt they would come true. I am going back to the state park in a few weeks. I found a good sized orchard there. The state bought the land in the 50's I think. I saw tons of baby trees there. And there was a good # of types planted. I'll take my chances with a few.

[robertb]

Do you have any other apple trees around? If not, you really need to plant two varieties for pollination, or three if you're including a triploid, which produces no pollen.

[PatrickW]

I forgot to mention pollination! This is very important. Apple trees have about 6 pollination periods, and you need at least two trees either in the same period or in adjacent periods. Two identical clones (propagated by layering or grafting) will not pollinate each other, the pollination partners need to be genetically distinct.

There are similar issues with most fruit trees, and you need to research these.

[silverseeds]

ok thanks everyone. I really appreciate it. I had switched gears and decided to get one tree and layer it to get more, so that little bit of info saved me alot of effort. I need atlest two parents. thanks

as for peaches I have been reading many types do breed true to type, if anyone knows where I can get some of those PLEASE let me know....

[PatrickW]

I don't know a lot about peach trees myself, but doing a little surfing seems to indicate that peaches will grow true to type from a seed, as long as that seed is not a F1 or later generation hybrid, as most supermarket fruits will probably be.

If you can find someone with an heirloom peach tree that doesn't cross with nearby trees that are different, planting the pits should be no problem.

I understand this is something of a touchy subject here, but members of the SSE offer a number of different varieties... The online listing (with members names removed) can be found here: yearbook.seedsavers.org

[silverseeds]

I have nothing against SSe, I just think kent was probably right, and as such it could not will change course. thanks for the info.

[silverseeds]

Thanks patrick, but it seems you have to be a SSE member to get those. Are there any SSE members here who I could pay to get the seeds for me that live in the states?

Id really appreciate it, and would pay for the trouble if I cant find another source that is, I will look deeper later today or tommorow...

[canadamike]

No. there are none, and nobody would like to help you

[ottawagardener]

Peaches grow true to type? Well... isn't that interesting... Another project to add to the list of intended things to do.

[silverseeds]

Aug 15, 2009 21:17:13 GMT -5 canadamike said:

No. there are none, and nobody would like to help you

I know your jealous of me since Im american michel, but we can all get along.

Looks like I have to figure this out quick, it seems most companies only send out apple and pear trees for fall, peaches I can grow from the pits, if I can find them. so looks like I will get some apples and pears, but focus on many types of peaches, because they will be easier to propagate. I actually like peaches better anyway. They dry better to, imo. It really stinks apples dont do well from seed. I can get small apples trees cheaper than I would have guessed so that isnt the problem. I have a LONG term plan here, and its just going to cause me alot more work.

I had also intended to spread them into other areas of open land all around here. The tribes here grew peaches so I figured pears and apples would be okay to. Looks like I will work with all three but heavily favor peaches.

So any SSE member willing to help me out I would be extremely grateful. I guess I could just join SSE, but listed members have access to varieties I couldnt get as a regular member. Could anyone explain that to me? If I join SSE in twoo weeks or so, could I order peach seeds from mebers right away. It seems such a slow way to do things. I generally dont like that much structure, lol.

[PatrickW]

Hi SS,

If you look at the link I gave above and choose a few varieties that look interesting I'll privately send you the phone numbers (or other contact info I have) of the members offering them and you can get in touch. It's best to pick something marked HAS.

I want you to know, I'm risking getting banned from the SSE for life, just so you can have some peaches!

To answer your other question, members of the SSE can choose to restrict their offerings in the following ways:

HAS: Generally available to everyone
LQ: Limited Quantity, and only available to members who themselves are offering varieties to others.
MR: Must Reoffer, only available to members themselves offering varieties and who commit to regrowing it and offering it to SSE member in the future.

Probably 80-90% of the offerings are HAS, and available to everyone. Lots of people complain that people order MR varieties, then don't reoffer them.

[bcday]

Aug 16, 2009 2:46:19 GMT -5 PatrickW said:

If you look at the link I gave above and choose a few varieties that look interesting I'll privately send you the phone numbers (or other contact info I have) of the members offering them and you can get in touch.

Patrick, that's a VERY BAD IDEA!!! (spank)

None of those members have any business doing what you are suggesting. If Zac called me, I'd tell him to call back after he joins. Grrrrr.

Zac, if you are interested in requesting seeds right away, you might want to contact someone at SSE about it. I'm not sure what would be the best way to go about it at this time of year. You're supposed to only use the form in the back of the current year's Yearbook to request seeds, as Patrick knows full well, and it's going to take a few days to get the Yearbook if they have any. The Yearbook comes out in February - March and they send copies to new members who join during the year (if they ask for a Yearbook) until they run out. Also, the deadline for requesting seeds is June 1 unless the member listing the seeds states otherwise. One member who lists peaches states a deadline of April 18. Some members will fill requests year round though -- it's their choice. Call or email someone at SSE and see what you can do, contact info is on their home page at www.seedsavers.org/

If you want to become a listed member for 2010, now is a very good time to join because the listings for next year's Yearbook have to be submitted in October. If you join now, you'll get a form in the mail sometime in the next month or two that you can use to list the seeds you want to offer in the 2010 Yearbook. They can't be hybrids or patented varieties -- SSE is there to preserve heirloom varieties.

Aug 16, 2009 1:51:14 GMT -5 silverseeds said:

listed members have access to varieties I couldnt get as a regular member. Could anyone explain that to me?

When a listed member has only a limited supply of seeds, they list the seeds as available only to other listed members. That way those members who go to the trouble to offer seeds through the Yearbook get first dibs on other listed members' seeds, which some may criticize but certainly sounds fair to me.

[silverseeds]

I dont intend to hurt patricks membership. but for the record bcday, I did order about 150 in seed from SSE, most of which I could have gotten other places, BECAUSE of SSE's work. Ive had SSE members tell me this isnt supporting SSE, but considering SSE membership fees only account for roughly 10 percent of their budget, Id hazard a guess they NEED that money as much as they do the membership fees.

I had intened to join SSE, but just recently found out about this kent thing, so its got me on the fence. I still might join just to get certain seeds, but I wont be a lifetime member thats for sure. Unless something comes out to prove kent wrong.