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Post by Jim on Dec 27, 2007 21:25:47 GMT -5
Lots of "new" tomatoes in the burpee catalog. I've noticed a few that are sold elsewhere. Do other companies resell their seed or vice-versa?
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Post by Alan on Dec 27, 2007 22:35:22 GMT -5
Some of the more popular hybrids like better boy, big boy, and lemon boy are sold pretty much universily while others like Brandy Boy and the new pase tomatoes, italian ice, and black pearl seem to be pretty exlusive to Burpee, I would like to know if there is anywhere else where I can buy bulk Brandy Boy so if anyone sees it let me know please.
I didn't see any huge marketing tomato this year, but I haven't overlooked the entire catalouge deeply yet either. Will take a look tomarrow and see if there is anything new I want to play with the genetics of.
-Alan
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Post by PapaVic on Dec 27, 2007 23:12:05 GMT -5
Frankly, for the past few years, all of Burpee's "new" or "exclusive" crap looks like something ripped off from someone else. Of course, now that Burpee is owned by Ball ... and who really know who owns what ... maybe Peto owns it all ... or some other Monsanto subsidiary ... I know nothing really ... but stay with me here ...
Burpee's "new" 2008, fabulous "exclusive" Razzle Dazzle looks suspiciously like Parks Razzleberry tomato that has been on the market a few years. Hell's bells ... the picture in Burpee's 2008 catalog even looks like it was cut and pasted from Park's 2007 catalog.
Last year's "Black Pearl" looks like a Black Cherry rip-off. Last year's Red Lightening, in spite of being a complete flop, can't hide from the fact of being a sorry replication of whatever red striped zebra it was devolved from.
This year's "exclusive" white cherry called Italian Ice looks exactly like Snow White or whatever other white cherry has been offered by any number of vendors like Totally Tomatoes or Tomato Growers Supply for years.
Last year's Yellow Magic "hybrid" is just another hollow, yellow stuffer available for years for any number of sources for open pollinated tomatoes.
Tomande Hybrid and exclusive??? Please!!! Golden Mama ... the world's only yellow paste tomato??? Better take a look at California Hybrids who has offered probably the exact same cultivar for several years.
Money will buy anything. Speaking of which, you better have a shitwad of cash if you plan on ordering seeds from Burpee. Looks like a pack of 30 seeds will cost pretty much 4.50 - 4.95 for most of their stuff. The "exclusives" don't all come with the full 30-count.
Yeah, Alan ol' buddy, I see a few interesting genetic possibilities there ... but I'd just wait and see what hits the seed racks in February at Wal*Mart or Lowes. I'll bet a few of their catalog 4.95ers will be available for 2.49 on the racks in a month or so.
Bill
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Post by Alan on Dec 27, 2007 23:17:16 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I did last year was what for the Home Depot and Lowes seed racks to hit and more than likely what I'll do this year too, I've never ordered from the Burpee catalouge and don't plan to now so.......plus it's all good because Kim works at Home Depot so I'll use her discount to get what I might want to play with.
-Alan
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Post by Jim on Dec 28, 2007 8:36:41 GMT -5
I was curious if the black pearl and italian ice were different from the OP varieties. I agree that I'll check wallyworld, lowes, and HD to get seed packs maybe. I'm not spending $5 on 30 seeds.
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Post by PapaVic on Dec 28, 2007 9:21:18 GMT -5
Clark,
I probably shouldn't say there's no difference whatever ... but hey, how much real vital difference could there be between Black Cherry (OP) and whatever monkeying around Ball may have done with it for a few years to turn around and call it "Black Pearl?" Same with the white cherry, red zebra, hollow yellow stuffer, or any number of other so-called exclusive hybrids dotting that catalog. What benefit exists relative to their being "hybrids?" I don't see any disease resistance claims, no increased productivity claims, no enhanced characteristic claims of any sort. And I doubt any exists.
Don't get me wrong ... if there were any improvements made to those tomatoes through Ball's breeding program, I would be willing to listen and give it a thumbs up if true. But from what I've heard and seen so far, it just doesn't wash. And I'll be tarred and feathered if I'm gonna buy seed for three times what I can get it somewhere else with no guarantee of tripled value in the deal.
Bill
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Post by Jim on Dec 28, 2007 18:02:25 GMT -5
I think you're right Papavic. Everyone of the tomatoes I was looking at is very similar to an OP variety if not identical. I swear I read somewhere that someone had a black cherry that had a grapey flavor when refrigerated just like the black pearl.
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Post by MawkHawk on Dec 29, 2007 8:33:59 GMT -5
I was curious if the black pearl and italian ice were different from the OP varieties. I agree that I'll check wallyworld, lowes, and HD to get seed packs maybe. I'm not spending $5 on 30 seeds. Yeah. Me too. I was shocked to see the prices in the catalog when it arrived yesterday. Esp when you can pay $1.25 for 20-25 seeds of many varieties at Heirloom Seeds, plus a few bucks shipping. Burpee has gone nuts, I think... |
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Post by plantsnobin on Dec 29, 2007 9:16:49 GMT -5
The problem with Burpee is the younger George Ball. I know most people here are veg gardeners, but some of you may be familiar with Heronswood. It was owned by Dan Hinkley, who traveled everywhere to find plants. He brought in a lot of plants from China. Anyway, his business was top of the line, true plant snob kind of stuff. He sold out to Burpee, and the horticulture world was up in arms over it. There was an extensive garden in Washington state that was Dan's private garden too. That was also part of the sell. One day without warning to the employees, it was closed. Burpee said it was moving Heronswood to Pennsylvania. Now the catalog is pretty much crap, all big pics and no substance. George Ball has kept Dan's writings for the catalog discriptions as his own. Reading it you would think that he was the one climbing through the mountains and jungles to bring back plants. Many people now refuse to order anything from them. What was once a wonderful specialty nursery now is the victim of Corporate greed AND you might have to add personal greed on the part of Dan. More folks were disgusted with him for selling out. He acted shocked when they closed down and put his former paradise up for sale. What could he have expected? Sorry, I guess I should have put this post in the 'soapbox' section....
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2007 14:07:24 GMT -5
sounds like a mess. Like I and others have said $4 or $5 a packet of seeds is a bit greedy especially if there are no clear benefits vs op similars
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Post by kctomato on Dec 29, 2007 14:08:04 GMT -5
I really dont blame someone for selling out what they have worked hard to acheive. I know from the expereince of several people that sometimes success can be its own monster. It is a shame both companies have turned into what they have but the makert place dictates what will and wont make it. Don't like it - dont buy it.
As for the "creative marketing" - thats not unheard of in the heirloom market. I would suspect that many so called family heirllom tomatoes likely very similar and are derived from the same early releases or are saved versions of popular lines brought from Livingston's, Burpee's etc...
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2007 14:10:52 GMT -5
very true kctomato.
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Post by Alan on Dec 29, 2007 20:05:21 GMT -5
"As for the "creative marketing" - thats not unheard of in the heirloom market. I would suspect that many so called family heirllom tomatoes likely very similar and are derived from the same early releases or are saved versions of popular lines brought from Livingston's, Burpee's etc..."
I do agree with this statement, but the selling out statement not so much, maybe that's because I'm an idealist and "just young enough to want to change the world and just old enough to know it can still be done." But to each his own I suppose, unless it negatively effects the world around you. I'll never sell Bishop's Homegrown unless it is absolutly imperative.
Anyhow, I don't buy from the Burpee catalouge, never have and never will, but I do occasionally pick up some of their new introductions as far as seed goes just to play with the genes, find an OP version, or compare and contrast, I'm sure that this year will be no different and when the racks roll out at Home Depot and Wal-Mart I'll pick up a few things out of curiosity to play with.
-Alan
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Post by Jim on Feb 2, 2008 8:55:26 GMT -5
I haven't seen any of their newer varieties on local seed racks. No black pearl, italian ice, golden mama, tangerine mama, ect. I did order some stff from their catalog because I wanted their boxwood basil and could't resist.
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