Dwarf tomato plants....thoughts?

[Jim]

I've never grown them but I have LISPs dwarfs on my 08 plan. I will be growing them all in containers. I'm curious as to all your thoughts and experiences growing dwarf plants. I like the concept of no stacking or minimal staking.

[PapaVic]

C-bar,

I grew the LISP Dwarf Mix for the first time in 2006 when I planted about 16 of them in a sprawl with no staking. Also in that plot were Lime Green Salad, Silvery Fir Tree, Pixie Peach and Heartland ... all from different sources and none from LISP.

The Dwarf Seed Mix is supposed to express red, yellow, gold, pink and green-when-ripe fruits, as you know. I saw everything but the green-when-ripe, and most of the tomatoes were half-dollar to golf ball size cherries and saladettes. One plant threw small, bullet shaped red fruit.

As to the concept of "no staking," after my experience of some fruit rot and sunscald on those plants in a sprawl, I would suggest some short, 99c, cheapo wire cones or at least one of those 18 - 24 inch bamboo stakes used in florist shops. You'll be happier with the results ... and I mean in pots or in the ground ... I've done it both ways now with the LISPs.

As to containers ... all the LISP Dwarf types that I grew in containers in 2007 did as well or better than the ones grown in the ground. One note of caution ... the Pink Dwarf will get a bit of BER in a container if you don't take care to water it consistently. It doesn't like the least bit of dry roots ... but it also will split if let get dry and then water heavily.

The LISP Dwarf Mix is a fun deal with lots of variation in the color results.

Bill

[Jim]

Thanks for the info Bill. The LISP dwarf packet is probably the only tomato variety that I plan to grow out the whole seed packet. Flowerpower gave me some seed from your little red bullet. I plan on growing some of those as well.

I plan on giving about a dozen of the plants to my grandma too. She likes the dwarf sized plants because they don't overwelm her garden.

[PapaVic]

C-Bar,

The "little red bullet" was little, red and bullet shaped ... conical with a pointed blossom end and a flat stem end ... just like a .68 caliber Confederate rifled musket mini-ball in 2006. That was the first and only plant to show up with the conical shaped, little red tomato out of that original Mixed Dwarf pack of about 25 seeds. But in 2007, the seeds saved from those original "little red bullets" produced some variation in plant and fruit sizes. Some of the plants remained very bushy, clumpy and low to the ground and bore the small, red conical tomatoes. Three of the other plants grew taller and gave heart shaped tomatoes about the size of an LG cell phone. I sent some of the 2006 "little red bullet" seeds back to Ken Ettlinger and he reports the same results as I do, basically. You'll have to ask Flower what hers did.

Another nice tomato you should look for in the mix is a very healthy, bushy, rugose dwarf that throws dozens of very nice, bright yellow, half-dollar size dandies with slightly ruffled, green shoulders and a zingy, sweet flavor. That one is my favorite for salad tomatoes of all the LISP Dwarf Mix babies.

The round red one is the largest fruited one, but also was the softest tomato and not really distinguished in taste. The pink is a bit smaller fruited, about the size of a golf ball, and rather bland flavored but very pretty. There also is a dark gold fruited one that is not as crisp as the yellower gold Dwarf, but is sweeter rather than zingy. The green-when-ripe Dwarf hasn't shown up yet.

For container size, I've grown them in 3, 4, and 5 gallon nursery pots. 3-gallon is a bit small. 5-gallon was ideal because it held sufficient growing mix but was still easy enough to move around even when damp. During our hot summer, and particularly during the 2007 drought, I had to water with about 1/2 gallon of water a day ... or at least every other day ... as I use a very porous mix. I set the containers between indeterminate vines in a raised bed and that helped shade the dwarves during the harshest part of the summer. The "red bullet" or "red heart dwarf" seems to want more sun than the pink or the yellow fruited ones.

Bill

[Jim]

Bill,

THanks for the detailed info. I've been saving 5 gallon pails and half 55 gallon plastic drums for this project. I figure I can plant a few in a half 55 gallon drum. I can't wait to try them all out.

Jim

[jtcm05]

I grew about 25 "dwarf" plants last year. Even dwarf plants need some staking. Most get to between, say 2.5 and 4 feet with most varieties that I've planted coming in around 3-3.5 feet. I've found that the smaller size "tomato" cages that they sell in the big box stores work absolutely perfect and fit very well in 5 gallon buckets which are ideal for growing most dwarf varieties. Even the short 3' bamboo stakes work great for staking dwarf plants.

I haven't found a dwarf variety that even comes close to tasting as good as some of the best indet varieties however.

[kctomato]

I made a hybrid with two differeing kind of dwarf genes involved but I wont know the results for another 2 seasons.

(Liz Birt x Australian Red Dwarf) x (Olpaka x brachytic line)

Im trying to get something meaty that tastes good too.

My interest in dwrf plants are for adaptive gardening (those in wheelchairs and such).

[flowerpower]

LISP Red Bullet gave me both shapes on the the same plant. I put one in a container and one in the ground. I just tied the container plant to the deck railing. But I used a cage in the garden. I dont think any of the LISP dwarves grew taller than the cages.

[Jim]

I'll have to load up on cheapo cages...

[Alan]

Bill or anyone else interested in Dwarfs, have any of you accessed the ARS GRIN system to see if there was any germplasm for these types stored away there? If not let me know and I'll do a search and request for things that otherwise may not be available.

I know a lot of people don't think the ARS GRIN system should be used like this, but the plain and simple truth is the GRIN system doesn't do a very good job of preserving the germplasm of the world and if we don't liberate what is there and not PVP'd for our own use some big bio-tech company will and they will PVP it if they find it useful, so it is my goal to remove as many usefull acessions as I can over the next couple of years and get them out and circulating amongst interested parties.

[Jim]

I'm not even sure what that is. A storage facility??

kctomato,
I'll be curious about the opalka cross..great idea.

[sandbar]

CB, you brought up a great topic. I've never grown a dwarf tomato before and have been intrigued by various threads that mentioned these plants. I wonder if you'd mind if I take this thread on a short rabbit trail ...

What are folk's favorite varieties of dwarf maters?

I'm looking for recommendations on one that can be grown in a container on my deck.

TIA.

[PapaVic]

Sandbar,

I've grown all the Long Island Seed Project Dwarf Mix tomatoes and Lime Green Salad in containers from 3, 4, to 5 gallon size. 4 and 5 gallon containers worked the best.

If I grew them on a patio or deck where appearance is an issue, I would first transplant them to a black nursery container that I had check fitted into a decorative pot as a sleave. After the weather warms up, I'd slip the black container inside the decorative container and move the plant to my patio or deck. I do this with Black Pearl peppers and it works really well.

This summer, in addition to the LISP Dwarves, I'll be growing several more dwarf types including Balconi, Red House Free Standing, Golden Dwarf Champion, and a few others that I ordered from Solana Seeds in Canada. I intend to put them all in 4 and 5 gallon containers. Those I don't keep at home, I'll sell or farm out to friends with patios and decks, and collect a few fruits for seeds.

Also, I have some Bush Celebrity, Bush Big Boy, Bush Beefsteak, Red Russian, Homestead, a really short Rutgers I found last summer, and other short stake determinates that I hope to keep in pots and breed down a bit smaller if they take well to my surroundings, etc. That Rutgers one did excellent in a 5-gallon pot last summer even through the extreme heat and drought.

Bill

[jtcm05]

sandbar said:

What are folk's favorite varieties of dwarf maters?

I assuming you mean for taste. The best tasting dwarf fruit I've had is New Big Dwarf, followed by Lime Green Salad and maybe citron compact. However keep in mind that dwarf fruit, in general, does not compare to even just a "good" tasting normal plant's fruit.

[canadamike]

I only grew a few dwarfs in container and some cold hardy ones, I don't remember the name, but I will be growing a lot of NBD, for I am tired of staking so called determinates that end up being taller than me. I want a more concentrated set too, for a chunk of my canning . I'll also grow Dwarf Champion if somebody here can reassure me on the taste.

As long as it taste good canned, I am ok. I'll see what you think and act accordingly. Craig LeHouillier told me New Big Dwarf's taste is up there with the best indet. WHEN WELL GROWN ( he specified, I guess I'll babysit them) and can provide 15-20 pounds of tomatoes per plant.

I think he knows...LOL

Anyway, some of them will nicely fill nooks and crannies here and there. He also said they were better producing in a large container than in the field.