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Post by silverseeds on Dec 5, 2009 2:09:50 GMT -5
Okay. I have some land in the mountains. Im looking for suggestions on what to grow. I want to eventually grow every variety of every edible or medicinal plant I can.
My basic variables are aridness. Around 8-12 inches a year. Usually 10. I will be using many methods to retain what water they do get, and direct the water that does come when possible to give them more, or to conecntrate it to a smaller area with whatever I can find. Maybe something like those paving stones people use for walkways. Or maybe adobe bricks. I intend to direct it deeper into the soil, by v trenches filled with sand usually or pebbles. So what water I do get will be used as efficiently as I can possibly use it, but it stil can go months without a drop in summer. Rarely like this spring it rained all spring. The time considered our monsoon season, was longer and more sparse. Sometimes there some rain in between sometimes not. It is also cool in the night even in the summer due to the high elevation.
Most of our water comes in the form of snow throughout the long winter. Usually most of the snow is melted by 3 or 4 the next day, but sometimes it stays to cold to melt for a week or two. It will be VERY cold as the sun goes down in through the night.
So if you can think of anything, which MIGHT be able to survive that please let me know. Ive seen people with peach, pear, and apples trees even, but obviously they dont produce as well here, but they did get harvests...... Im guessing I should get better harvests then they did, because all the ones I saw didnt go to the extent I will be going to best utilize the water.
Long term Id love to find and grow every type of useful plant I can. I have a heavy silty clay soil, but if something would grow here if it were not for that one reason, Id still love to know about it, because I could always better prepare the area in some way if I have to.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Dec 5, 2009 7:46:25 GMT -5
Definitely get pinon going up there. The market is wide open for pine nuts because like mushrooms, the supply is dropping but the demand is growing so prices are rising and should continue to rise regardless of the current market issues.
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Post by lavandulagirl on Dec 5, 2009 8:31:02 GMT -5
If you're looking at medicinals, I would suggest some of the arid growing herbs on that piece of land. Woody herbs will grow best, sage, winter savory, lavender, rosemary... I bet you could establish yarrow there, too. I like MnJ's pinon suggestion, too.
I realize you have only slight rainfall, but what is the atmospheric humidity? If you have any tree cover, you may find that you can grow more than you think under them if the atmospheric humidity is decent. Perhaps there's a berry producing shrub you could introduce under the fruit trees you mentioned.
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Post by silverseeds on Dec 5, 2009 11:19:11 GMT -5
Ive got all kinds of pinons already. Some very old trees included. I have some very sparse currants as well. Atmospheric humidity? Im not sure, exactly, but I dont think it is significant at all. For the entire range of mountains it might be a bit more humid then the lower elevations but not enough you cn tell. 45 miles away one anothe rmountain which is around 2,000 feet higher, there is enough humidity you can feel it in the air.  |
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Post by peppereater on Dec 5, 2009 11:28:10 GMT -5
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Post by peppereater on Dec 5, 2009 11:29:35 GMT -5
Oops! I was typing while you posted, sorry to be redundant. |
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Post by Alan on Dec 5, 2009 14:14:48 GMT -5
I would go with lots of perrinnials, particularly berry bushes, blackberries and raspberries would probably do well, currants, gooseberries, blackberries require quite a bit of moisture so they are probably a no go. Fruiting trees with deep strong taproots would probably do well.
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Post by silverseeds on Dec 5, 2009 14:35:32 GMT -5
I will go through my notes tonight or soon, so people get a better idea of what I am talking about, and what I am looking for....
I have alot of things already, to try, and see how it goes... alot of local stuff to. there are semi local things which I think I can keep healthy with a little micro climate set up.
I mean if peaches, apples, and pears can make it here, theres got to be alt of other types of bushes and trees, which may be marginal, but Id still like them.... Maybe in 20 years, and adding new genetics they wont be so marginal....
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Post by Alan on Dec 5, 2009 15:07:00 GMT -5
I would go with lots of perrinnials, particularly berry bushes, blackberries and raspberries would probably do well, currants, gooseberries, blackberries require quite a bit of moisture so they are probably a no go. Fruiting trees with deep strong taproots would probably do well. I don't know why I said blackberries require a lot of moisture, I actually meant blueberries, just in too big of a typing flurry to notice I suppose. I think maybe apricots might work where you are. Persimmon might be a distinct possibility but I have never really looked at any statistic of growing them as a crop in the west. Asian persimmon however would probably do fairly well for you I would think and there would probably be a decent sized market for such types. |
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Post by canadamike on Dec 5, 2009 19:02:00 GMT -5
Anybody here growing barberries? Just had a barberry muffin and man oh man is it good.¸¸I had to ask what the fruit was, but boy was it gooooooooood.
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Post by rockguy on Dec 5, 2009 20:34:50 GMT -5
Maybe if you made a list of what grows there wild, it would give us some ideas about similar plants or plants in the same families. Good luck with it in any case.
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Post by silverseeds on Dec 6, 2009 1:01:25 GMT -5
Okay let me try to make a list of things.... Some are long shots, some are much more likely.... the most basic thing I took into account is cold tolerance. Being that peaches, apples, and pears, and plums produced here, without the extensive help I will give them, many of the marginal ones, might as well. I probably have a few on the list which wont come close to growing here. One company I ordered from I later found lied pretty heavily, so I will be going over it better in time, but most of these might work....Id love to trade for varieties I dont have of anything anyone thinks might make it here... even marginally. so if you can think of anything else please list it for me..... any help is appreciated -pecans -hardy orange -siberian pea tree (caranga arborescens) -littleleaf caranga( caranaga microphylia) -four wing saltbush(grows abundantly here wild, supposedly the seeds are edible but I have no idea how youd eat them without eating alot of none seed material) -paw paw -persimmons -americn beech (fagus grandifolia) -sand dropseed -indian ricegrass -wild local roses -three-leaf sumac (rhus trilobata) -curl leaf mohogany -pinons -desert beardtongue -western sand cherry -chokecherry -netleaf hackberry -trumpet gooseberry -golden currant -serviceberry -russian olive(might not plant this one actually) -desert holly -wolf berry -small leafed sumac -wild local plums -yucca -prickley pear cactus(for fruit and pads) -black cherry -hazelnut -black walnut -apricots -peaches -pears(including various species, some rather rare in the states) -apples -medlar -quince(I dont have seeds for this but want them PM me if you have some to trade) -black walnuts -acorns -honey locust -crab apples -chestnuts(need seed for this also) -dandelions -pigsweed -lambs quarters -possibly perennial rye, with the right micro climate set up.... -possibly these barleys from kusa with the right micro climate set up theres alot more I have in another box, but i couldnt find it to make the list..... Im not really looking for info on how to do anything, just different types of fruits or nuts, hardy to zone 5. 4 is even better, those rare winters here..... and as drought tolerant as apples peaches, plums and pears, since I know they can produce here. although not nearly as well as other places of course.... Even long shots Id like to know about and try.... : ) this is a VERY long term project. Lots of trial and error..... Im sure theres 100s more things I can try I did not think of, even on my other boxes of seed..... |
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Post by oldfatguy on Dec 6, 2009 3:19:07 GMT -5
Chinese Wolf Berries...Goji Berries.
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Post by nuts on Dec 6, 2009 8:47:49 GMT -5
What surface do you have?
What do the vegetation look like(woods,grasland,vegetation of shrubs or so)?
I think you have to think if your farm as a organic entity.
I read you're interested in animal production(I defenitly recommand sheep, I'll comment that point in another thread of you.)but even without animals I think grasland improvement can greatly increase the productivity of you're entity.
But animals or not,I recommand grasland improvement or transformation of improductive surface to grasland.
If you have grasland observe it ,feed it with organic amendments(compost,manure),or mineral things,like wood ashes(or commercially available sources of potassium,phosphore an calcium)
If you 're grasland ispoor this can result in a spectacular improvement of biomass production.
Mow the grass for hey(for animals),or feed the mowings directly to the cultivated surface,to feed the worms.
If you have poor grasland,you should see more and leguminoses like clovers ,vesces and lotier.
In case there is naturally no grasland try to establish a field of alfalfa.A field of alfalfa can produce high quality biomass for ten years or so.
Probably the surface of vegetables,fruits andcorn is limited by the amount of water you can store.I think the surfaces that can't be cultivated intensively are important too and can contribute to the overall prosperity.of your farm.
Look around in your area what trees are doing well,are drought resistant and produce usefull things like wood,fruits and leaves that are appreciated by animals and take the seed on those trees.
I was a goat farmer so my point of view is some what more orientated by a overall view of biomass production and animal feeding but I think succes of intensive cultivation is somehow dependent on what you can feed to the soil and overall biomas production is a major factor in that.
Probably this is not all I want to tell, but it's all for today.
I see you coming with lot of questions and hope I'm of some help in your 'brainstorming'
cheers,
nuits
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Post by silverseeds on Dec 6, 2009 9:01:22 GMT -5
Nuts, yes trust me every single word is words of wisdom in my eyes... Im trying to find everything which grows here, then work it into a sustaining system.... So if something I write, makes you think of something even seemingly unrelated, Id love to hear it..... This is a work in progress. the runners of a new way for this area to look at growing food, and hopefully raising animals... I found someone more interested in the animals then I am. I want some for sure, but thats all they want, and understanding biomass, and how to best utilize it sustainably, can be a tricky but rewarding thing..... Ive got ideas on it, but every drop fills the bucket.... I saw a permaculture video turn much drier land then this in a grassland, so I know whats possible if we plan better... thnks for your input..... |
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