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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 15, 2014 12:25:44 GMT -5
Just for clarity, I would make the point that while I see the need to protect one's crops,(which may also be poultry or critters), and I will certainly try to protect mine when I have such, my heart is with the hawks and coyotes; they are such magnificent creatures, un-dumbed to our use, unlike our poultry and livestock, which we have largely made to be ambulatory vegetables, to the point that they no longer have undomesticated versions, nor can they survive without us. I think, ultimately, that my orientation is to permaculture, both in plant and animal. I recognize the need for domesticated animals (damned hard to milk wild animals), but does everything have to serve us, to the exclusion of other creature's needs? Really, how much of Creation has to be about us? I don't know that your right about them being unable to survive without us. I've been having fun reading this blog about Aurochs and European rewilding recently. Domestic cattle for the most part can take care of themselves just fine on their own. So can chickens as long as the environment is similar enough to Southeast Asia where Junglefowl come from. There are feral chickens in Hawaii and the Caribbean. Just about any domesticated animal I can think of is capable of going feral. Maybe not guinea pigs? What we've done to the major crop species is dramatically more alterations from the wild type. Corn truly is completely dependent on us for its survival, probably all the hexaploid bread wheats as well, bananas, casava, seedless citrus? |
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Post by richardw on Jan 15, 2014 13:14:53 GMT -5
Most sheep breeds would die out with out us,we have bred out the ability to shed there wool so in time it would kill them,i'm a blade shearer by trade and sometimes i get called in to shear some that have gone wild,these two had three years of wool on them,two more years and they would have died from the weight which was already up to 30kgs when these were done  |
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Post by steev on Jan 15, 2014 13:49:17 GMT -5
Although some domesticated animals can survive somewhat as ferals, I think it largely depends on the predators present. I suspect Hawaii and the Caribbean are lacking possums and coyotes, which are very partial to poultry, and we've done a pretty good job of decimating predators capable of taking down cattle.
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Post by richardw on Jan 15, 2014 14:33:40 GMT -5
No large predators present here either which is why deer and pigs are a major pest
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Post by blackox on Jan 15, 2014 17:45:07 GMT -5
I never said that wanted to shoot the hawks. Pa does that, and if I could be doing things my way I wouldn't kill hawks. I was actually pretty pissed off when Pa shot a Merlin, a small species of falcon that wouldn't be able to fly with anything bigger than a rat, to protect our flock. If that was an American Kestrel I would have been on a rampage. It is sometimes necessary though.
Letting the predatory birds have a great source of extra food would, would, encourage them to start having larger families. Which could lead to an overpopulation in some areas, and more hawks to take our birds.
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Due to plentiful bodies of water, we have a large mixture of feral and native ducks and geese. They're no harm, but they're feral. There are mixed groups of feral-wild turkeys. We used to have feral hogs here, but they were hunted out a long time ago. The area that I live in is plentiful in feral dogs and cats. And I'm sure that there are others that we haven't seen yet, we've only lived in the area for two years.
A few weeks ago here was a fairly large group of feral dogs running in the neighboring cornfeild, the scene reminded me of wild mustangs running around the desert plains out west. Recently, that same group of dogs was right next to the luckily fenced-in chicken run. They were highly interested in the birds and showed no fear in us.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Feb 8, 2014 17:10:52 GMT -5
A goose will take care of your hawk, possum, raccoon, fox, and maybe even a few other problems. A goose is just good that way, or at least that is what is working for us. We had all kinds of issues before we got her. Permaculture is, in my opinion, the perfect answer for all such things. Yea, some animals would die out without human cultivation, but not all. Chickens are PROBABLY a lot more self reliant than you might think. I KNOW the guineas are! We just experienced a freak ice/snow storm a week ago. EVERY thing was shut down... this being the south and all, we are clueless and equipmentless for such events. Anyhow, a friend of mine was uber concerned, almost mad at me (but not quite), because we were not bringing all the animals into the house. I told her what precautions we were taking for each animal, explained that each had different needs, and eventually brought up her knowledge of the matter to a reasonable level. She was SO amazed, not to mention thrilled, that every single animal survived just fine and dandy. She was also amazed at how much work some of our measures entailed (hand carrying warm drinking water to everyone at the crack of dawn). She appreciated that I took the time to tell her all about it. What we don't know about our relation to the world around us is infinite compared to what we do know. Geez, I'm rambling huh? ANYway, we have a whole new understanding of our birds, they laid like champs all through the extreme weather. Amazing. Thanks to the inspiration of so many others here on the board, we are on the first leg of developing a new chicken breed just for this area.  |
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Post by blackox on Feb 8, 2014 18:53:15 GMT -5
Our geese (except for the Sebastapols) will sit through just about any snowstorm, even when they have ice frozen to them or a few inches of snow on their backs. Geese are very hardy guard dogs. Could you post pictures of this new chicken breed that you're developing? I'd be very interested to see them. Do the cocks and hens look different or do they have similar feathering? What breeds did you use?
I'm kind of collecting notes, thinking of starting my own breeding project with chickens later down the line. So far I've made two interesting looking crosses that I like, ones the Black Copper Maran x Barred Rock that I mentioned earlier in this thread. I haven't quite figured out exactly how I can post pictures on here but can Email them to you if you would like. (I usually use copy and past and I can't get it to work on here for some reason.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Feb 11, 2014 12:07:58 GMT -5
I'm no picture poster either, lack of technical ability I fear. What's your thinking with crossing those breeds? What are you looking to achieve? We are looking for dual purpose, winter laying, large brown/green/blue eggs, heavy laying. Next year we will add day neutrality to the mix so only eggs lain without artificial lights.
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Post by blackox on Feb 14, 2014 19:02:15 GMT -5
Originally I had just thought that both mixes were really neat-looking, and wanted to play around with crossing them both.
A dual-purpose bird would be a necessity. Other desired traits include; large dark brown eggs, heavy laying, improved winter laying, the best possible foraging ability, and a good sense of self-preservation. Installing lights doesn't take too much of our time or effort so day-neutrality would not be a needed trait, but always welcomed if I can get that far. I don't know if we'll have room for my breeding project, but sure hope so!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 20, 2014 11:46:59 GMT -5
Our first hatch using "Dry Incubation" by Bill Worrell of Briarpatch is now completed with 19 chicks in the brooder. I am not as impressed with the hatch rate as I had hoped to be. However, I do feel that this method has given us healthier, stronger chicks in the end. One of the reasons they appear healthier and stronger is that none of them have any leg or foot deformities. Of course time will give us a more accurate measure. I'm only guessing by appearances and behavior at this point.
We started the hatch on Wednesday, February 26 with 33 Buff Orpington and 7 Easter Egger eggs.
On March 4th we candled and eliminated 2 eggs as undeveloped and marked 6 eggs as questionable due to very light shaded sacks.
On March 11 we candled again removing 7 more eggs.
On March 15 we candled for the 3rd time moving the eggs from the turner to the screen floor in preparation for hatching. We also added more water to increase the humidity to a goal level of 65%.
On March 18 we awoke at approximately 6 a.m. and 7 eggs were pipped at that time. By 8 a.m. 4 chicks were fully hatched. 1 appeared to have been partially eviscerated probably due to being stuck to the membrane.
On March 19, at 9 p.m. we opened the incubator to remove the chicks and clean out the shells. We harvested 18 live chicks at that point. 2 were dead. 1 had begun to zip about 4 hours earlier but had made no progress. We were able to completely remove her from the egg as all the blood from the membranes had been fully absorbed. We left that chick in the incubator along with 7 unpipped eggs overnight.
On March 20, this morning, we removed the last chick who seems to have a minor vent prolapse or possibly some unabsorbed yolk. Not nearly as fluffy nor vigorous as the rest, but I do believe this chick will survive.
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Post by reed on Aug 30, 2014 20:50:32 GMT -5
Ha, I new I was right! A friend of mine says you have to close your chickens up in winter or they will get sick. I said if it was me and I had to sleep over poop I would rather have fresh clean air moving around than un-measurably warmer air full of stink. So, I built a roost coop without a bottom. The floor is made of some old chain link fence about three feet off the ground. Above, where the roosts are, is closed in winter but it is just open to the outside under it. I have never had a chicken get sick and my friend is always saying one of his has died from something respiratory. A bonus is there is no smell at all. And, if somebody gets pushed off they can't land in the poop. I don't want to eat poopy chickens.I throw weeds and grass and leaves and stuff under there, they poop on it and then I scrape it back out and bury it in trenches and plant corn on top. It seems to work pretty good. The rest of the coop all just has chain link walls except for the North and that was mostly so I could frame little doors to reach in to get eggs. I almost never go it there myself. Last year was the coldest we have had in 40 years with a few daytime highs below zero. Aside from a little frost bite on their combs they were fine. My friend is astounded they don't all get sick and die. I think making them sleep closed up in poop stink is chicken abuse. |
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Post by reed on Aug 30, 2014 21:08:55 GMT -5
Just for clarity, I would make the point that while I see the need to protect one's crops,(which may also be poultry or critters), and I will certainly try to protect mine when I have such, my heart is with the hawks and coyotes; they are such magnificent creatures, un-dumbed to our use, unlike our poultry and livestock, which we have largely made to be ambulatory vegetables, to the point that they no longer have undomesticated versions, nor can they survive without us. I think, ultimately, that my orientation is to permaculture, both in plant and animal. I recognize the need for domesticated animals (damned hard to milk wild animals), but does everything have to serve us, to the exclusion of other creature's needs? Really, how much of Creation has to be about us? Chickens are supposed to be smart enough to hide under something when a hawk comes. A rooster is supposed to keep watch and sound the alarm and he is supposed to beat the crap out of a hawk that he catches on the ground, that's what mine do, if they don't I eat em or trade em. A Red Tail Hawk is no match for a 7 lb rooster with a sharp eye and three inch spurs. Unless hawks are really stupid I doubt the same one tries it again. I did have one chicken that thought freezing up where it was was hiding. It's genes were quite naturally removed from the mix. Chickens that decide to sleep in trees instead of going in are owl food and that is fair, a mans gotta get this sleep. |
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Post by 12540dumont on May 21, 2015 12:26:21 GMT -5
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Post by steev on May 21, 2015 20:41:29 GMT -5
I've mentioned it before, but to re-cap: put a large enough store of ANY resource somewhere and something will come (or evolve) to exploit it. While I recognize the pain of those enmeshed in this horrible pestilence, I don't buy factory-farmed eggs raised on GMO feed simply because I think such agribusiness approaches to food production are open invitations to recurring disaster. If you put all your eggs in one basket, every so often you'll lose all your damned eggs. Downsize and diversify; that's what Nature does, and it works!
Dumping all this poultry in landfills? These folks don't have tractors and implements capable of working all that fertilizer into the soil, being afraid of lingering plague which might adversely affect their return to the practices that contributed to the disaster? So they've used factory-fert to raise GMO feed for factory poultry which they have to land-fill (in a now-toxic waste-site), so they can start over in the same practices? I don't doubt that there are many responsible, blameless people caught in this maelstrom, but neither do I doubt that the primary drivers of it are short-sighted and fundamentally fucking stupid.
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Post by reed on May 21, 2015 21:13:51 GMT -5
My part time job puts me in company with people who have differing views on things such as this. So far that I know of nearly ALL the cases of this disease have been in the factory farms, one bird gets it and all 100,000 in the house have to be destroyed. Curious with all their bio-security it has moved from one of these factories to another and they don't know how.
In my state a single case has been confirmed in a "home" flock. I may be paranoid but it seems to me some people like to stress the "home" part. As if it is somehow the fault of people who have a home flock. In meetings, and I might be paranoid again but I get the feeling the general consensus is you shouldn't have home flocks. I know better than to say anything but think to myself there should be a law that protects home flocks from the disease of the factories not the other way around.
The last email update I got listed all the countries that have banned poultry imports from my state because of "one confirmed case in a HOME flock", and the financial costs of it. Maybe they didn't really mean to stress the "home" part, maybe. Anyway, if there were not any home flocks what would they do about the many, many, many thousands of wild ducks, geese, turkeys, robins, buzzards and wrens that are probably also subject to this disease and much more able to move it over large distances.
Big Chicken, Big Hog or Big Cow kills or sickens a couple of people or some of their critters get sick and next thing you know there are more laws against raising food. Yep, price of eggs will almost certainly go up but how the corporations and their wholly owned government subsidiary reacts is the really scary part.
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