The kid has goat and chicken questions

[nightmist]

Apparently since learning of our plan to move as far back of beyond as we can manage, my daughter has been having livestock aspirations. She saw me asking about china eggs and was very excited to find out about this section of the forum.

I'm not going to let her do everything all in a minute, but eventually as reasonable some things may be possible.

She has questions about two breeds of chicken, and a couple of goat questions. If anyone would be so kind as to answer her I would appreciate it. She is a little vague about what she wants to know, but then she is only young.

She is eying Houdan and Minorca chickens.
The only types we had when I was a kid were barred rocks, silver laced wyandottes and a few Brahmas. Fancy breeds are beyond my ken.
She thinks the houdans look cool, and that the minorcas are everything we would want in a chicken.
If anybody has any experience with either of these, I am sick to death of seeing countless web pages about it. ;D

So far as goats, she wonders as to which is better for milk, alpines or nubians.
I have already explained repeatedly that discussing religion in mixed company is impolite!
I have never met a nubian I got on with, so my notion would be to try something new. I certainly got enough of ye olde foot in the bucket when I was a teen! Our girls would even manage to do it to me when I would tie both a back and a forefoot. One of them, Hermione, was a biter too.

Her last question is do kashmir goats do well in climates like this.
(snowbelt, zone fiveish, lake effect weather)
I don't see why not. But it would be good to hear from somebody who has actually had them. Though since they cost about the same as a good milk cow I certainly don't see her acquiring any anytime soon!

[grungy]

The only suggestion I would give you concerning a milking goat, is to taste the milk first. Goat milk can range from delicious right through to yuck even in the same litter mates. If you have 3 female kids in one birth each kid when they start milking will have a varying taste of milk.

As for chickens - what are you planning to raise them for? Meat, eggs or dual purpose?

[nightmist]

I've no idea what she has in mind.
So far as chooks, if it were me, I would be wondering about constitution, temperment, and how they lay. Though for all I know she has visions of show chickens dancing in her head.

I've explained milk goats to her already.
The only reason my mom put up with Hermione, who was as ill tempered as they come, was she was a prodigious and steady producer with exceptionally good tasting milk. The other goats, eating the same feed, grazing the same ground, drinking the same water, didn't give near so much milk, tapered off sooner, and the milk was simply not as tasty. A fact which displeased me greatly since they were merely sullen about being handled, while Herminone took bad behavior to whole new levels.
I think she is wondering about general production and temperment. Especially since my initial reation to goats at all was "Oh _hell_ no!"

[cff]

If I were going to invest in dairy goats I would be looking for a Saanen. There is a raw Saanen dairy local to us right across the state line in South Carolina - the Saanen breed are impressive milkers' considered the Holstein of dairy goats because of its superior milk production and is also the largest of the dairy goat breeds.

An average doe should produce 3 liters of milk per day over a 10 month lactation. They are also very adaptable and can do well in almost any environment.

"The Saanen holds the world record for milk production and most of the kids will bring a really good price for some added $$$$

[flowerpower]

I have 1 Saanen and her 2 babies are saanen/alpine. I never milked her, even when I could. But her bags were always full when she was nursing. Best thing is no horns on her. One baby has horns, one does not. And I do think she has a better temperment than the Alpines. CFF is right, people are always looking to buy her and her babies. But Saanens are uncommon in this area. Most dairy goat farms have Nubians here.

[bluelacedredhead]

And what's wrong with Showing Poultry??

Crested Fowl like Houdans or Polish (which is one of the breeds I bred and showed in both standard and bantam fowl) require constant and extra steps to keep them at their best. Not only do you have the usual poultry parasites, but Crest mites as well; a tiny mite that invades the crest plumage and are terribly difficult to eradicate.
Crested fowl can also be troublesome to water in winter. Their crests dip in the water and then freeze. You may have to bind up their crests with either tape or elastics, which of course damage their plumage to keep it out of the water depending on the condition of your poultry building and the temperature therein.
Crested fowl have less than stellar eyesight. Not their fault they can't see predators from anything further away than 2 paces......
Polish chickens can have cerebral hernias which result in pressure on the brain, uncoordinated movements and often results in death.

The V-comb of the Houdan is actually one of the best types for cold weather. Not much there to freeze and it's protected somewhat by the plumage. But the feathered toes, like the crests, can be a pain as they accumulate dirt and muck readily unlike unfeathered shanks of most breeds. Not to mention Leg Mites...

Crested breeds are time consuming and require constant attention to properly manage. Not really a beginner's breed, IMO.

[nightmist]

When I first saw a picture of a houdan my comment to my daughter was: "You actually found an emo chicken?"

Yeah the abundance of feathery bits had me looking askance.
I knew a 4H girl who was raising those yellow bearded laced polish chickens (I _think_ bearded and laced are the right descriptors, it has been a while). She had no end of trouble with mites and the complications from them. Plus the darned birds were staggering about half blind because they couldn't see for the feathers. Apparently clipping around the eyes would have been bad.

Nothing wrong with going in for show animals. I just don't want her making pets of animals that may end up coming to dinner.
I'm kind of encouraging her to start with something a bit more common, like rocks or wyandottes. Wyandottes were pretty much the chicken of choice locally when I was a kid.
I am also trying to figure out what kind of bantys my gramma had, they were chickens with Attitude, and lord help the child that tried to collect any of their eggs. They wanted to hatch them all, and neither corn nor bread would distract them from Protecting The Eggs! Whatever they were I surely don't want them. Little buggers were pretty fair fliers too. Dun and grey colored critters with relaxed combs almost as big as they were.

[bluelacedredhead]

Bearded Buff Laced would be correct NM. There are actually non-bearded varieties as well. But I much prefer the look of a beard on a buff.

Could the floppy combed flighty fowl possibly have been brown leghorns? The hens aren't large. It would be easy to remember (or think of) them as being an overly large bantam type.
Have you tried looking through the bantams on Feathersite.com to see if you can identify what Grandma had?? Or would you prefer not to, based on your past eggsperiences with the little peckers (Pun Intended)...

Some breeds are easily resentful of a human trying to steal their potential offspring. Gloves and long sleeves are often wise at egg collection time.

Wyandottes are a great breed. Gentle, cold hardy and layers of a good sized brown egg. Eggcellent choice...I say go for it!

Hahaha this is the time I wish there was a reason for editing.... Cuz I said Wyandottes are a great Bread... I had thoughts about changing it to say they are great with Breading, lol

[nightmist]

I looked through that site, and went and looked at leghorns. Then I talked it over with my husband. We figured out that banty chickens around here back then meant something different than just dwarf chickens.

Back then in this area, bantys were game birds, or game crosses.
Now those leghorns you mentioned do bear a resemblance to my grammy's bantys, but their legs are not long enough, and the roosters are not flashy enough. The hens were pretty dull looking, but the roosters had big arching tail feathers and flashy colors. And they were _tiny_ compared to the other chickens. They were all legs and feathers and spurs, and would have made a cornish rock look big.
They were also aggressive as hell and would put the run on all the other chickens if they got uppity. The one that was still standing after the cockerels were culled (you could not have more than one rooster or they would eventually fight) always felt it was part of his job to herd the hens back and forth across the yard at frequent intervals. Grandad kept some Brahma roosters penned up separate (for eating) in what amounted to a giant cage, and the banty rooster had a hate on for those guys that was just fearsome. He must have run two pounds a day off those poor fellas just flying at the cage and screaming.
My husband has tales of his mom's banty rooster killing small predators, and one time doing some serious damage to a beagle that had dreams of a chicken dinner. The dog kept its sight and only needed about five yards worth of stitches, but he took some nursing.
As DH put it bantys don't fly, they float on a cloud of rage.
They are however some of the best mom-chickens you can get.
But as I said, when you don't want them setting that trait makes egg gathering an extreme sport.

Because of the combs I am thinking the ones I am recalling were some kind of cross. The roosters did not have the floppy comb, theirs was rigid. But being as they would not tolerate another rooster, and that we would swap eggs to my gramma, both for setting and for eating, I would hazard that there was some serious cross breeding going on.

Oh yeah, we ended up with all the brahmas. Grandad said all the exercise they got at his house made them fit for naught but carting. ;D

[flowerpower]

Night, Blue just had to make me look at pics of Wyandottes. lol Bit I did get the gold laced in the spring. Beautiful and sweet birds. I would say only 3-4 of the 11 could even be considered for shows. The rest do not have the best patterning. They go out almost every day and it is cold and very windy here. And at our county fair, there was only one baby silver laced wyandotte on display. Very few fancy breeds at all.

[nightmist]

A brief note about naming conventions.....

Since I have found myself talking about goats more often, I have run into somebody who assumed Hermione was named after the Harry Potter character. Um, no. Far too long ago for that.
Not that it matters, but I thought others might be curious.

When I took over tending the goats at age 12 (a step up from poultry I thought) I also assumed the responsability for naming them. At that point in time, the buck was called Jupiter, and the youngest doe was Helen. By the time I left, the new buck was Zeus, and the girls were Helen, Leda, Clytemnestra (aka Nessy), Hermione, Electra, Iphegenia (aka Jenny) and Nan. Nan was the grand old lady of the bunch. *chuckle*

Yeah I was in a Greek phase in my teens. ;D