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Post by PatrickW on May 6, 2009 12:45:14 GMT -5
Corn is not a good place to start learning seed saving!
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2009 7:55:41 GMT -5
Sounds like it! However, it's expensive to buy so it's very desirable. Do you think I should abandon it even for my own use?
I have had marginal success saving tomato seed. But that was only one year several years ago.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2009 8:01:54 GMT -5
Opps! Patrick and Mostly, I didn't read these 2 entries before putting in my last reply. Thanks, I will be trying to save just enough for myself for next year only. I was thinking of 4 ears.
I want to seed save, but there are higher priorities at the moment and will remain so for probably the next 2 to 4 years. Seed saving for me at the moment will be mostly a cost cutting measure. Within 2 to 4 years we should be actually generating enough food for ourselves and for sale. That will allow me time to learn and start really doing serious work with seed saving. On the other hand, if I can pick up a little practical knowledge here and there along the way, at least I'm getting started... right?
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Post by PatrickW on May 9, 2009 9:26:29 GMT -5
It never hurts to experiment. Just be sure not to share your seeds with unsuspecting people...
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 9, 2009 16:04:27 GMT -5
Oh yea, definitely not for sharing. Not yet at least. Considering we are on only 2 acres, I was under the impression that I couldn't really expect to seed save. The property is to small to plant in sufficient quantity or distance isn't it? We hope to acquire more land in future, but I don't foresee that occurring for at least 3 to 5 years.
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Post by grungy on May 9, 2009 21:35:01 GMT -5
You have plenty of room for seed saving. You will just have to work at it a little harder, is all. You will have to learn to blossom bag everything but it can be done on less than 1/10th of what you have for land.
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Post by canadamike on May 9, 2009 21:46:34 GMT -5
I don't know why people in europe are so afraid of saving corn seeds. I tend to think they are the perfect place to start ( sorry Patrick  ) As opposed to melons or fruits, If something else gets in some sweet corn, let's say GMO field corn ( or non GMO for that matter), you SEE the bad grains right on the spot, and eliminate them. If you go, as an exemple, for a white corn, there are few of them grown today, you will know if they have been touched by anything else but some close by other white sweet corn, a freakishly rare occurence. I grow my sweet corn 10 feet away from field corn and have no problem at all, it is well oriented with regards to the wind mind you. 90% of corn pollen falls within 4 feet. Of course, if it gets windy a lot, well...it is a different story. But by timing DTMs, it is easily doable. I also start my early corn in flats one month before it is officially time to plant, it adds me one more time window and some extra safety. If I lived in Europe, I would intentionnaly plant white sweet corn right by field corn just to piss off the bastards who voted these stupid laws, with 100% certainty I would always get 100% seed purity. The sweet gene is recessive, never forget that. And you see the results of unintentional cross with field corn right there in front of your eyes. You pluck them out. And there usually is not much, even at 10 feet from field corn. |
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Post by PatrickW on May 10, 2009 4:35:15 GMT -5
The Seed Savers Exchange just purchased one of the largest and most remote contiguous pieces of land in Iowa, protected by deep valleys, in part because the air in Iowa is so full of corn pollen in the summer this was the only way of isolating their plants. If you live in an area where a lot of corn is commercially planted, you will almost certainly have some issues with cross pollination.
If you have problems with crossing, it's not always a solution to just pick out the seeds that are a different color, unless there are very few of them. This is because you won't see this until the crossed seeds are replanted and have once again had a chance to cross pollinate other plants.
You'll only know exactly how much of a problem all of this is after you have tried saving seeds yourself. Like Val said, it's certainly possible to do a lot in a small space with the right methods. You have plenty of room.
Mike's suggestion of planting white (or another unique colored) variety is a good one, because it will make it easier to see crosses.
I personally think tomatoes, beans, peas and lettuce are better places for beginners to start seed saving. On the other hand, everything you do in the garden usually turns into a learning experience, so please don't let me discourage you from trying anything!
Many Europeans, especially the Spanish for some reason, think of corn as an animal feed and not suitable for humans. They don't know what their missing!
In addition, the US has the great fertile midwest corn belt. It's not that suitable places don't exist in Europe for growing corn, but there isn't really anywhere with the combination of large tracts of fertile land with a good climate, so historically it hasn't been grown that much here. It's just not really part of the culture. What is grown here doesn't usually taste as good.
The English word corn comes from the Dutch/German word 'korn', which literally means 'grain', and is the same word used with wheat, rye and all other grains. The Dutch word 'kornveld' often refers to a wheat field. I guess to the early settlers of the US, there was just nothing interesting enough about it to distinguish it from any other grain.
You can certainly buy sweet corn here, and people do eat it, but not like they do in the US. Often I can only find only the most sickly sweet varieties, because people expect it to taste like sugar above anything else.
Instead of salt, Dutch people usually put sugar on their popcorn. Sometimes it's along the lines of carmel corn, but usually it's just several heaping tablespoons of table sugar poured on top. Here you can buy two kinds of microwave popcorn, sugar or salt, and most people buy the sugar. If you go into a Chinese restaurant, the chances are pretty good you will be served soy sauce that's made with sugar instead of salt (but I'm getting off topic here...).
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Post by bunkie on May 10, 2009 8:31:04 GMT -5
that's really interesting about the sugar/salt preferences with the popcorn patrick.
i had one question about the 'shoot' bagging of the corn. does one have to bag all the ears on a single plant, or can one just bag a couple of ears on the plant?
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 10, 2009 10:17:43 GMT -5
Wow, this is all so fascinating. We are in a total learning curve so nothing can really hurt to try. I owe Bunkie big time for sending me some Hartman's Yellow Gooseberry tomato seed. I just haven't had time to bake yet =o(. I'll post as stuff happens around here and I'll be happy to take what advice I can. Any words on green peas as those are blossoming right now? That's the first crop I'm really interested in seed saving. They tend to die so easily on me as well. This year is the best so far and I'm thinking within 2 to 3 days I'll have a real amount to have for dinner or a pot of soup. You guys are so special, I really appreciate you!
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Post by grunt on May 10, 2009 22:15:13 GMT -5
Bunkie: You only bag the ears you are going to save seed from, and the top ear on the plant is usually the one chosen to save. If you check out that pdf that Mostlypurple gave the link for, you should have no problem figuring out just what to do. (http://www.chaseiowa.com/webfiles/Instructions.pdf). You don't need special bags for the job. Just about any brown lunch or grocery type bag will do if it's big enough. Or staple together what you need out of newspaper, with double folds where you staple. Like so much else we do in the garden, it seems challenging when you first look at the prospect, but in the end, "It aint Rocket Science".  |
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Post by grungy on May 11, 2009 2:08:08 GMT -5
MJ - green peas - leave a couple of plant unpicked and the seeds will ripen in the pods. Most peas and beans are self fertilized and unless you have a very active bumblebee or solitary bee population they shouldn't cross with another pea or bean. Good place to start saving your own seeds and also offering varieties, if you care too.
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Post by grungy on May 11, 2009 2:11:56 GMT -5
Bunkie, the way I understand it, is that you bag the top ear. One ear, one tassel per plant. Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone. Personally I prefer to try and stagger my Days to Maturity (DTM's) so that only one variety is producing pollen at a time, and before the pollen tassel is ready and once the ears of that variety are pollinated, rebag the ears I want for seed and remove the tassels so that they can't pollinate the next variey.
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Post by flowerpower on May 11, 2009 4:35:05 GMT -5
"Many Europeans, especially the Spanish for some reason, think of corn as an animal feed and not suitable for humans. They don't know what their missing!"
Maybe they didn't like the look of corn when the explorers brought it back. The colors probably seemed weird for a grain.
I am still new at growing corn. And I mostly do ornamental anyway. Sweet corn is very cheap here over the summer. They grow alot of experimental patches here too. But that is mostly in the valleys. I am high up on the mountain. There is not much corn grown up here. And its for animal feed. I am not too worried about foreign pollen. I just need to learn to stagger the tasseling better
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Post by bunkie on May 11, 2009 9:10:43 GMT -5
... I owe Bunkie big time for sending me some Hartman's Yellow Gooseberry tomato seed. .... it wasn't me who sent you that seed mnj! maybe val? the staggering part is my problem too, flowerpower. i don't know what the days for maturing are for the corn varieties i'm planting. dan, i saw that pdf of mj's and am going to try it. newspaper for bagging sounds good...what would we do without newspapers???! btw, val, i tried making the large paper pots for the corn. started it a week ago and the plants are 6 plus inches high???! planned on planting them next week, but we're still getting frost here...the weather's very below normal here! |
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