seed saving and wine years

[orflo]

I save quite a bit of seeds, normally from about 200-300 species each year. The vegetable range goes from tomatoes, peppers and other known vegetables (some things , like corn take up a lot of space, we haven't got that space over here, so I can't save seed from this one), onions, swiss chard to unknown stuff, quilquina,amaranth, quinoa, cyclanthera,...and so on. Now, I think there are 'good' years for saving seeds, just comparable to 'good' wine years;
Just some things to illustrate this: 2003 and 2006 were wonderful years, a very hot summer (sometimes even too hot), a long mild autumn, as a contrast, 2004 and 2007 were really bad, rainy, grey,..
I experimented a bit, and the seeds from these two warmer years did have a better germination percentage than seeds taken in the other grey and dull summers.
I use tomato seed from 2003 or 2006 for the moment (with the exception of new varieties of course), and get far better results compared to the 2007 seed ...
Quilquina, a Bolivian herb with coriander taste, is said to have seeds with a short viability. I've sown the 2007 seeds, who looked healthy and fully ripe, result:no germination. I took the 'too old' 2006 seeds, and within a week a had 10 young plants.
I could go on giving examples, is anyone having the same 'wine-seed years' experiences?
Frank

[raymondo]

I haven't been saving seed for long enough really, except tomato seeds. It makes good sense, what you've experienced. A better season should produce better fruit and hence better seed.

[lavandulagirl]

So, do you think you'll take this theory far enough that you will choose not to save seed during certain years, based on the type of weather, or of yield? It's an interesting postulation. I'd be interested, too, if you see any pattern, or any increase in occurence, of "bad years" for seeds.

[orflo]

There are some other factors involved which have to be examined a bit further. If one saves seed in 'bad' years, could these seeds be a selection on these bad weather conditions? Or did they in fact become more vulnerable because of the conditions they experienced?
Another thing is the older age of the seeds, new seeds germinate faster, compared to older seeds, this is especially true for peppers, melons, squash,...So, what's the advantage in using older seeds from better years compared to older, better-year seeds, with a higher but sometimes slower germination(with the exception of some )?
Another thing to be considered is the unpredictability of the weather , certainly over here in Belgium.Flowers are isolated a few months before the seeds ripen off, maybe the weather is fine during isolation time and turns around for the next two months or so...So, this is a reason why I do save seeds every year. I think the weather during ripening time is more an essential factor than conditions during the forming and growing of the seeds, a lot can go wrong when the seeds start to really ripen off,(, I've had seed heads sprouting on the stems , just one of the things that can go wrong) ,
Frank

[flowerpower]

We had a cold, wet summer here in 07. Especially during flowering time. But a very long, warm autumn. My maters had no diseases of any kind. I saved seed from the best fruit. I would think it's a good thing because these fruits tolerated the bad conditions the best. It's what I want in a variety because that type of weather is normal here. Someone who lives in hot, dry area would want totally different traits.

[lavandulagirl]

FP - that brings up an interesting thought as to "tweaking" heirloom seeds for use in different areas through seed saving selectively. Beyond the zone system used most commonly, I mean. Within our own seed stashes, we could have tomatoes (or whatever vegetable) more suited to a summer after a wet spring, or after a dry one. It's a very interesting subject.

[tomc]

I can say for woody plants, there definately have been better years than others. Mind its a toss-up if it is how the summer went or how the winter went for seeds being cold stratified out in the cold frame.

[grunt]

I have always contended that seed saving by individual will eventually force a drift in the variety, just due to the traits that the individual saves for. Which is good reason to both trade seed, and save particular ones for your own preferences. By trading, you ensure the original stays available and you develop a strain that is suited to your conditions and preferences. Some people will save for taste alone, some for split resistance, and some for hot or cold weather endurance, or productivity or DTM. It all makes for an infinite variety of varieties
Most of our seed saving is not geared towards any particular trait, because we are just trying to make sure the varieties don't disappear. The few varieties we do repeatedly grow get selected for size, taste, DTM, crack/split resistance, and productivity - - - not necessarily in that order, and not necessarily all of the traits.
Our stabilizations of the various crosses we have encountered (and will intentionally make) will eventually get selected for those traits, once the forms have been somewhat stabilized. I imagine after three or four years of doing so, I will be a permanent member in lala land.

[sammyqc]

Zigan is being grown by many people around here! The seedlings were the nicest, biggest ones, so when I have my little plant sales, they were always picked first! And people were so intrigued by a 'black' tomato. Maybe they'll start learning french!

[canadamike]

Sammy, I still maintain you are a little devil. !

Orflo: I'll take a batch or your best Bordeau, please !

[sammyqc]

Moi?? Une diable?

Pass the Bordeau.

And, Grunt, I meant to add, you live in BC. That is lalaland.

[swisscharrd]

Facinating ideas - sad part you can not save them for years and pull our a good ole charrdonnay bean 1968. On seeds that are viable for longer you could plant that particular one more than one year and hope that one was planted in a good year and hope to plant one in a bad year and see if there is a difference then....and then you would want to continue saving the good one that was planted in the good year...etc.