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Post by PatrickW on Jan 4, 2010 9:29:36 GMT -5
What exactly does "naked" mean in terms of the seed? Hull? Fibers? I'm hearing that the flesh is not terribly desirable yet there are tons of seeds which makes me wonder if the value of the veg is more in the seed and if so, how? Perhaps for oil? I'm hoping to have a press in a couple of years for the purpose of extracting oils. Naked refers to the seed coat, and the 'flesh' people are talking about is the flesh of the pumpkin itself. For some reason no one has been able to develop a variety that has both nice seeds and nice flesh. 'Naked' pumpkin seeds are green, and sometimes baked in bread. They look and take a bit like large sunflower seed pits. I think they are more common in Europe, but people eat them in the US too. And, yes, indeed. Naked pumpkin seeds make very nice oil. There's a region near the border of Switzerland and Austria (Styria), that's famous for it's pumpkin seed oil. |
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Post by mjc on Jan 4, 2010 9:49:30 GMT -5
Yes, naked seeded pumpkins basically don't have the thick, heavy, whitish hull that all other squash have. They are green with very thin, almost nonexistent, papery hulls that can be very easily rubbed off. There's at least one variety that has such a thin hull it typically is washed away during the removal of the seeds from the fruit.
While the flesh won't win any taste prizes, it isn't exactly inedible...but there are definitely vastly superior pumpkins/squash in the taste department. They remind me a lot of spaghetti squash but while being rather stringy aren't quite stringy enough to be used like spaghetti squash. You can use the flesh for livestock feed...my chickens enjoyed some of the LadyGs I processed, I'm sure that if I had hogs there would be no problem disposing of any amount of it (past experience with hogs/squash...they will eventually get tired of zucchini, but it takes a while and if you want any don't let them anywhere near the patch)...they'll eat ANY squash. Cows like squash too, but I don't know about the naked seeded kinds, as our cattle were kind of picky about the squash they'd eat, they preferred the more flavorful ones. So they'd have some value as a fodder crop.
But seeds/oil is their primary value.
I'm happy with the Lady Godivas, so I'm probably not going to go nuts on other varieties, although there are a couple that look interesting, especially the ones from the Long Island Seed project...smaller, thinner fleshed fruit with a higher percentage (by weight) being seeds would be fine by me.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jan 4, 2010 11:08:20 GMT -5
Fascinating info. Thanks. Pumpkin seeds are prominent in Mexican cuisine by the by. They are roasted, ground, and added to sauces and soups mostly. I would want some for that purpose as well, but I understand the oils have some superior health properties.
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Post by Walk on Jan 4, 2010 11:50:09 GMT -5
This has given me much to think about - THANKS! We currently use the Kakai variety solely for seeds which we roast and use as a topping for salads, etc. The flesh isn't stringy enough to use for spaghetti squash, but I was hoping a cross would push it more in that direction. It sounds like the genes for the naked seed are on 3 different genes and they are all recessive, so the cross is probably more complicated. I'm not sure I have the space to grow out enough of a population to make this cross, unless I just happen to get lucky. Sounds like the kind of gambling I'm willing to try.
As for other varieties, some of the "naked seed" types are only partially naked - they still have a thin seed covering. We like the green seeded type better. I think I'll give the Little Greenseed variety a try so I don't have so much flesh to compost and maybe that alone will make me feel less wasteful. As it is now, my sheep turn up their noses at the Kakai as they would rather have trimmings from the better tasting squash that we cook up, so the Kakai ends up composted after the seeds are removed. I'd be interested to know how they commercially extract the seeds. We do it by hand which is a slow process. It would not be worth the effort to make oil after all that hand work - there's got to be a better way.
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Post by mjc on Jan 4, 2010 12:32:28 GMT -5
I think that Little Green Seed could even be easily trellised...probably wouldn't need any kind of support for the fruit at all (up to 3 lbs....).
As to processing, I were doing a bunch at one time, I'd probably just split them (slamming them on the ground/rock should do) and scrape out the seeds into a bucket, then wash...one of the links I found the other day showed a 'commercial' harvest and that was pretty much what they were doing.
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Post by bunkie on Jan 4, 2010 14:11:03 GMT -5
great posts all! we enjoy the naked seeds from Lady Godiva and Little Bear so far. frank gave me some other seeds to try this past spring and we'll be planting those this coming spring. it's flesh is also not very edible...or...i can't remember what frank said about flavor, taste, etc...
is the Little Green Seed available at LI Project or elsewhere?
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Post by mjc on Jan 4, 2010 14:13:28 GMT -5
Supposedly at LI...but they still don't have the new list/ordering up yet.
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Post by extremegardener on Jan 5, 2010 17:04:47 GMT -5
As to processing, I were doing a bunch at one time, I'd probably just split them (slamming them on the ground/rock should do) and scrape out the seeds into a bucket, then wash...one of the links I found the other day showed a 'commercial' harvest and that was pretty much what they were doing. I grew Kakai this year and was happier with it than I had been with a variety simply called "Styrian" that I have grown prior. Processing the seed is a real issue. Since the seeds don't have a protective hull, I found that washing is not a good idea. I suppose if you had a really good way to wash and dry them quickly, without overheating them and damaging the seed viability it might work. I don't. The seed absorbs moisture like crazy, and is easily damaged. It also tends to ferment, which could be interesting - flavor reminded me of Jarlsberg cheese, however, I really wanted dry seed to store and roast as needed through the year. Kakai seems to have a dryer flesh than Styrian, which is a big plus. I found a lot of seed sprouting in the just ripening Styrian fruits, which is no good. I processed the seed in the field for Styrian, which was not a pleasant task as it is pretty cold here by the time pumpkins ripen. This year, I cured Kakai, brought them inside and am processing the seed one or two fruits at a time, as we are eating the seed. I have found almost no sprouted seeds in Kakai so far. The dryer flesh pulls away easily from the seed, so that’s a lot better for processing, which I do simply by pulling the seeds out by hand.. I am not impressed by the productivity. Kakai fruits average 10# and yield about 3/4 to 1 cup of seed each. I believe someone in our area actually got a grant to study growing these for biofuel - what a joke. I will keep growing them though - the culinary quality of the seeds is excellent, and the flesh is a, um... great source of compost. |
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Post by bunkie on Jan 5, 2010 19:03:22 GMT -5
extreme, i've just lately been reading up on sprouting wheat berries and then drying them, in dehydrator or oven, and grinding them to use as flour. they say there's more nutrition, eaasier for our systems to digest, the wheat this way. i wonder if one could roast sprouted Kakai seeds? probably depends on how far along, sprouted, they are?!
the only squash we've grown is the Lady Godiva and Baby Bear so far. haven't had any trouble with seeds sprouting in the squash/pumpkin.
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Post by atash on Jan 7, 2010 0:50:15 GMT -5
Thank you for starting this thread. I've been trying to decide which if any hulless pumpkins to grow. I like pumpkinseed but I worry about days-to-maturity and productivity. Someone asked about a perennial pumpkin with good-to-eat seeds. That would be Cucurbita ficifolia. It seems to be a tricky crop due to its climatic needs (cool but not frosty): mutuallyassuredsurvival.com/smforums/index.php/topic,2512.0.html |
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Post by canadamike on Jan 7, 2010 2:21:42 GMT -5
Am I dreaming here or what? This sounds like a serious post, with people talking breeding, I offer 15 unknown to westerners cultivars and nobody answers...
If you need me I am in the back house trying to do something with myself 'cause it seems a better idea than doing nothing ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by darwinslair on Jan 7, 2010 6:18:05 GMT -5
<laughing> ok Mike, send me enough to do a couple hills whenever that corn seed gets to you.
with the melons.
And your astronomie corn
and whatever else you were throwing in there.
Tom
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Post by bunkie on Jan 7, 2010 15:41:10 GMT -5
Just ordered about 15 or so from Grin 3 PI 164997 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 4 PI 267660 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 5 PI 267661 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 6 PI 267662 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 7 PI 267664 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 8 PI 267756 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 9 PI 288241 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 10 PI 344070 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 11 PI 355054 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 12 PI 364240 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 13 PI 364241 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 14 PI 508468 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 15 PI 508469 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 16 PI 537560 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 17 PI 595838 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 18 PI 615086 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 19 PI 615102 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo 20 PI 615133 - NC7 - Cucurbita pepo A few of these are for my zucchini breeding work, some for disease resistance, one is for male cytoplasmic sterility but 15 or so are naked seeded accessions. Those interested in sharing the work are welcomed... darn....how'd i miss this post???! count me in on 5 varieties of the naked ones michel, please... |
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Post by Walk on Jan 9, 2010 11:29:20 GMT -5
Hi Canada Mike,
Do any of your varieties have the green seeded naked seed trait along with spaghetti squash flesh?
As for seed processing - we use a big cleaver to "machete" the Kakai pumpkins at their equator, then scoop seed out by hand. We wash the seeds and pat them dry with a cotton dish towel, then spread out on screens in a sunny window to dry. We only get about 1/2 gal. of seed from our patch, which seems hardly worth the effort unless the squash is also edible. We get larger yields of poppy seed from the same square footage of space, and they are easier to process. But the pepitos taste so good they've got us hooked.
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Post by extremegardener on Jan 9, 2010 14:45:51 GMT -5
extreme, i've just lately been reading up on sprouting wheat berries and then drying them, in dehydrator or oven, and grinding them to use as flour. they say there's more nutrition, eaasier for our systems to digest, the wheat this way. i wonder if one could roast sprouted Kakai seeds? probably depends on how far along, sprouted, they are?! Well, the sprouted seeds are really nasty tasting (intensely bitter), so they might be nutritious, but... |
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