HIgh desert CORN

[lmonty]

oh you also mention some corn varieties that have 60 or 70 day maturities- then say Hopi is about 100. are you talking to milk stage in the 60-70 day range, and then dry at 100? reason i ask is i am not familiar with any variety that dries down in two or even 2 1/2 months, that would be a very attractive attribute for me to try to incorporate in my corn selections.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Jan 21, 2011 13:52:52 GMT -5 lmonty said:

oh you also mention some corn varieties that have 60 or 70 day maturities- then say Hopi is about 100. are you talking to milk stage in the 60-70 day range, and then dry at 100? reason i ask is i am not familiar with any variety that dries down in two or even 2 1/2 months, that would be a very attractive attribute for me to try to incorporate in my corn selections.

In my garden this summer: From the day the seeds were planted (on the same day). Painted Mountain was about 80 days to quite dry. Hopi pink/blue/taos was about 120 days, and was still quite damp when I picked it. By the time Hopi corn starts maturing in my garden it is quite cool/damp already so it dries much slower for me than it would in a warmer climate. Painted Mountain though gets an early start, and matures during the heat/dryness of the summer.

To add confusion: Days to maturity is normally counted from the day the plant emerges from the soil, or is transplanted into the garden. So subtract 5-14 days from the numbers I gave above depending on how cool the soil is when the seeds are sown.

Hopi traditionally plant corn seeds about 12" deep, in a clump, with 6-10 feet between clumps.

I normally plant "cold tolerant" corns 4 weeks before the last expected spring frost. I have to wait until 2 weeks after for delicate corns like "sugary enhanced". This spring I am going to try planting Painted Mountain and other corns as soon as the snow melts, at the same time I plant peas: About 8 weeks before the last expected frost.

[lmonty]

wow joseph thats impressive that early! I do think its interesting though, in the "wild" corn survives and volunteeers quite well. That is "planted" obviously well before last frost dates! My guess would be that corn seed traditionally is expensive, and it benefits most formers to have a uniform stand with the same maturity date, so the current cultural methods go well towards that goal, waiting until the majority of the seed wont rot, and most will emerge uniformly?

Thanks for the info on the Hopi traditional planting methods. I would never have guesed a foot deep. Doubt that would work well in my clay based soil, I am assuming it was more efficient in the warmer drier sandy desrt soil.

[waltseed]

There is another reason to plant many seeds of each variety of corn for crossing, which I haven't read here.
If you plant only one or a few seeds of each parent variety, the bloom of one might not overlap the bloom time of another.
When I have crossed diverse corns before, I planted a few of each kind one day, waited a couple days and planted a few more of each variety, then planted a few more seeds of each, and so on. That way, at least some of each will overlap and desired crosses can be made.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Jan 23, 2011 4:27:11 GMT -5 lmonty said:

Thanks for the info on the Hopi traditional planting methods. I would never have guesed a foot deep. Doubt that would work well in my clay based soil, I am assuming it was more efficient in the warmer drier sandy desrt soil.

I experimented a little with planting in deep clumps this year. I planted about 1/2 a foot deep. In 3 spots it was practically 100% clay soil. Those three clumps have not emerged, so i'm going to assume at this point that the deep planting methods are meant more for sandy-desert soils and don't work as well with clay soil. 2 full clumps are doing well in spots nearby, but they were receiving a nice amount of sun early in the season. 3 other clumps only 1 corn stalk has emerged in each of those.

So i think the deeper planting method can work, but may have to wait until the soil is dry and warm enough to prevent the seeds from rotting before they germinate. I may try it again next year, but a little bit more carefully.

[loki]

You need to grow at least 200 corn plants to keep a variety stable. You do not want it to cross with other varieties (unless you are breeding a new variety or making a hybrid - and these require much more work). Corn is an unusual garden plant, compared to most others we grow. It is extremely heterozygotic (many gene pairs that are different). It also has lots of recessive genes that we would not want expressed (like shortness, small ears, tillering, etc.). It is also a prolific outcrosser - crosses with other corn plants easily (nearly all pollination is from a different plant). If you don't grow enough plants the undesirable traits will 'fix' in your variety, and may even make it completely useless as a food source (though it may grow just fine). Most other garden plants are not like this, and are easy to save seeds from (some need separation though). If you cross corn and want to develop a new variety, you must grow even more corn, and select the ones that have the traits you want for replanting. Then grow out for many years, do backcrosses (back to parental strains), and keep selecting the best. Growing several varieties in one year is possible with diverse maturing varieties, and staggered plantings. If two varieties flower at the same time - you may have to sacrifice one of them that year (so keep lots of seeds!). Bagging corn (putting bags on tassles and ears to prevent pollination from other varieties) is also possible, but for 200 plants?