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Post by johno on Oct 10, 2007 18:27:04 GMT -5
I'm thinking of maybe planting some Silver King (81 - 90 DTM) and probably Rainbow Inca (75 - 80 DTM,) so the question is, what is the appoximate DTM of Astronomy Domine, so I can time my plantings to coincide?
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Post by Alan on Oct 10, 2007 22:15:54 GMT -5
Honestly Johno with so many genes coming into play in this mix it is truly hard to say what the DTM will be, there were short season(65-70 DTM), mid season(75-90DTM) and long season (90-100 DTM) corns in the mix, like I said I just continually replanted the shorter season varieties. My guess would be about 80 DTM on average, even if the one corns DTM is 80 Days there is generally still an ample amount of pollen coming from a 70 DTM corn to cross readilly, 10 days is about the cut off however. It will just take a bit of experimenting to see what happens and you can always save out a small portion of the blue kernals which correspond to black mexican and black puckers and blue jade and plant them a bit later than the other colors to make sure you still get those color genetics.
I hope this helps a bit.
We will have to definetly trade notes on results next season.
-Alan
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Post by Alan on Oct 15, 2007 10:33:32 GMT -5
I decided that I am going to grow two seperate versions this year Johno.
The pure version which will also have the added genetics of Rainbow Inca and Painted Hills
And also
The SE version with the above and Silver King as the female parent....I will grow a lot of this because this is going to be a main crop markett corn.
I also bought another sample of black mexican and blue jade which I will interplant 10 days after the initial planting to make sure I still get those genetics a little more integrated into the planting.
-alan
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Post by johno on Oct 15, 2007 12:11:49 GMT -5
What do you think about Argent vs. Silver King?
I guess planting every 4 or 5 days for a couple of weeks is the way to go.
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Post by Alan on Oct 15, 2007 13:13:19 GMT -5
It depends, do you have any rust and or stewarts wilt in your area? If so then definetly go with Silver King, however, if you want to get the corn in the ground early in the year don't use Silver King because it has really horrible cool soil germination.
Yes, staggard planting is probably a good Idea at leas for another year or two, once we have a good integration of those early corns in the other corns then planting all at once is a good idea.
sorry if all of this is confusing, I'm still learning about breeding corn and corns genetic traits, it's an experiment thats for sure, though I think in the end we will have something to be really proud of with these different strains of Astronomy Domine.
-alan
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Post by johno on Oct 15, 2007 15:12:53 GMT -5
I don't really know if those diseases are present here? I usually grow popcorn, and it never shows any signs of disease. The last time I grew sweet corn, a few years ago, I did get a little smut. The plants didn't get very big or have big ears, but that was probably just nutritional.
I could really do two seasons in one here, especially since I can easily extend my season with a much smaller growing area than you have - the downside being I'll have a much smaller crop. In the past, I've started corn under plastic low tunnels, and had emergence in three days. The temps get to 90 degrees in the tunnels quickly. I'm still working out my spacing, but it looks like I have room for 120+ plants, (double that if I go nuts like I did with tomatoes this year...) That's enough to ensure diversity of a stable variety, do you think it's enough to work with a non-stable one?
I'm rambling... it must be naptime...
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Post by johno on Oct 15, 2007 15:14:20 GMT -5
Oh ,yeah... what about flavor between Argent vs. Silver King? Anyone know?
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Post by Alan on Oct 15, 2007 22:29:11 GMT -5
Johno, I would probably go with 200 plants just for the sake of safety, if nothing else you can eat those 75 extra ears, but that is just me. As far as flavor I prefer Argent, but with the silver queen you get the better disease resistance so that's a toss up really. If you get the corn out early enough and get it dried down enough to get a seed crop early enough I would definetly double crop just to see what happens. As a seed saver myself I found it not just a want but a need to own a dehydrater with a thermostat, it does wonders for drying down seed quickly, as soon as corn is dry enough to shell (without too many casualties) I can toss it in the drier at 95 degrees for a day or two and have seed ready to go back to the field immediately, which lends well to double cropping, you might look at getting one of those cheaper low tunnels with a piece of film from growers supply, they have one model with plastic and fittings and all you need to attach the plastic that is 10 X 20 for like $400 which is a really good deal, i've got a couple of them I use for winter crops like lettuce and so forth, I may buy a larger one next year for early tomatoes or corn, time will tell.....i'm sort of obsessed I suppose but it is also a job (that I love)....
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Post by Alan on Oct 15, 2007 22:31:53 GMT -5
Also, what do you use for fertiler, I know you are into the certified naturally grown thing, my advice would be Blood Meal, it does wonders honestly.
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Post by johno on Oct 16, 2007 6:09:10 GMT -5
For the money, turkey litter is the best deal around here. I hear it costs about the same as sand or topsoil... If my ship comes in, I want to buy a truck load (10 yards.) Soybean or cottonseed meal is fairly cheap, a LOT cheaper than blood meal.
You're right. I think I'll do about 250 plants. The tomatoes will have to go in 5 gallon buckets next year to make room - there may be advantages to that, anyway. I will have to get some more low tunnel materials... You can get pre cut 10'x20' plastic at evil walmart for about $10.00 (although it gets shorter every time I go to buy more - grr!) Steel is through the roof, so I'll probably get something besides rebar to make the hoops with this time, or maybe I'll just get a smaller diameter. 3/8" was a little overkill...
I already have a good dehydrator - wouldn't have thought of that.
If Argent tastes better, I might go with that. Our first divergence on the Astronomy Domine line! I have planty of time to think about it.
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Post by Alan on Oct 16, 2007 14:53:23 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking about that too, I figure since I know I will be using Silver King then maybe you should go with argent and see what works out the best!
I usually use chicken manure from the local chicken houses that sourround us but I didn't know if certified naturally grown would allow you to do so if they were immunized against anything.
-alan
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Post by johno on Oct 18, 2007 8:01:03 GMT -5
As it happens, I'm in the midst of writing an article on CNG, so I should know the answer. I meant to look it up yesterday, but the new puppy has been pretty distracting... My inclination is to say as long as it's aged, it's allowed, but don't hold me to that. I'll look it up soon (I had better!) CNG uses the same guidelines as the USDA National Organic Program Final Rule. www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NOP/standards/FullText.pdfAh, there it is. Raw animal manure must either be composted or put in/on the soil at least 90 days before an above ground crop is harvested, 120 days for crops that come in contact with the soil. That means I have up until about two weeks before planting the seeds to get it done. If I missed something, I'll report back... By the way, that's a LONG pdf. But it will answer your questions about what's Organic and what isn't... |
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Post by Alan on Oct 18, 2007 22:49:25 GMT -5
You know after reading through that and looking over the ceritfied naturally grown website and in time I think I might aim for getting certified naturally grown, we will wait and see what happens I suppose, but right now it seems like a good idea considering more or less what I do is everything already required by organic standards.
-Alan
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Post by Alan on Oct 29, 2007 16:58:40 GMT -5
Hey Johno, plantsnoobin tipped me of to another colored sweet corn through horizenherbs.com, it's called sweet double red, it doesn't appear to be the same as Alan Kapulers Martian double red (or purple depending on description) and might add some more valuable genetics to Astronomy Domine. Just thought you might like to know, if you come accross any other "unique" sweet corns that might do well then let me know. I will be continuing my search with breeding green sweet corn next year (actually the purple pigment expressing itself over yellow kernals), if I ever get that gene to express in a sweet corn you can bet i'll be throwing it into the mix too!
-Alan
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Post by johno on Dec 26, 2007 18:05:58 GMT -5
Sooo... What do we think about going whole hog and using a super-duper sweet white mother for market sales? Stokes has three whites with with 25% sh2, 75% SE or su/se kernals. As I understand it, it's okay to cross pollinate them with non-sh2 pollen. Stokes calls these "Synergystics," and promote them as having both sucrose and fructose in high levels - in other words, old-fashioned AND supersweet flavor on the same ear. This would make them even more desireable to the modern consumer, to my thinking...
Since the white-ear plants will be detassled to allow the colorful ears to pollinate them (resulting in a multi-color sweet corn for market sales,) Astronomy Domine will not be pollinated by the sh2 genes.
Comments?
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