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Post by Alan on Nov 3, 2007 17:31:09 GMT -5
Anybody here got any new breeding experiments on the agenda for 2008? If nto do you have any suggestions for anything that you would like to see crossed?
One of my ideas with my Hip-Gnosis seed development project is to provide first generation (F1) seed to you guys for growout and selection, somewhat like the dwarf project over at tomatoville. The only difference is I don't mind if you share the seed with those outside the project, as a matter of fact I encourage it, this is why this year I sent out the highly unstable "Astronomy Domine" sweet corn breeding material, I hope you guys find it useful!
Next year I am going to expand on this big time and offer several new F1 crosses and saved F2's from stuff I grew this year and also from commercial hybrids, exspecially those that have merit but which will soon (take my word for this) be off the radar because of the huge merger that Syngena/Rogers company is about to make with some vegetable breeders (scary stuff, too much power).
Anyhow, tell me about your crosses or what you would like to see me cross for you guys!.
-Alan
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Post by Alan on Nov 5, 2007 0:26:19 GMT -5
Anybody know of any F1 seed they would like to have an Open Pollinated Variant of? It doesn't matter what it is, corn, tomatoes, squash, watermelon, peppers, just let me know, i'm up for it.
-Alan
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Post by johno on Nov 14, 2007 13:29:36 GMT -5
I have a plan.
I want to develop a new C. moschata squash (or two...) I've mentioned this before. The thoughts behind this are: 1) C. moschatas generally taste better and have better texture than the other squashes, 2) C. moschatas are usually the most insect-resistant of the squashes, 3) squash is one of the 3 Sisters, and I'd like to develop a signature 3 Sisters combo that satisfies nearly everyone.
The only drawbacks to C. moschatas are that they are notoriously slow to mature, and they often take an enormous amount of space. The obvious solution is to use bush types for breeding partners on the first round, and keep selecting for short vines. Same goes with 'days to maturity.' There are some bush butternut hybrids that fit the bill here, but I don't know their parentage. I fear they may have been interspecies crosses (C. moschata X C. pepo) to get the bush habit genes. If this is the case, selection will be slow going. Hopefully it isn't the case. A good person at GardenWeb suggested the following bush C. moschata varieties: Burpee's Butterbush, Chieftan PMT, Autumn Glow, and Pilgrim. Do any of you have experience growing these?
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Post by Alan on Nov 14, 2007 16:05:35 GMT -5
I would say that Autumn glow and butterbush are no goes, they haven't in the past two years produced well or made good sized fruits for me and the taste was pretty sub-par, however Chieftan PMT is a good squash to start with, however I am betting the PMT comes from a C. Pepo cross, though I couldn't be sure, you could save the seeds for a year or two and see what starts segregating and then make a decision, it's really hard to say and I'm also betting that you will have a hard time finding that bush trait and still getting the taste of C. Moshata to match what you like, most generally the reason C. Moshata's are high in suguar is because of the amount of leaf area in relation to fruit, the more area there is for phosynthesis the more sugars the fruit can build.
I can suggest one though that might be worth a growout from a hybrid which produces nice large tasty fruit and is tolerant of just about anything thrown at it, do a search for Ultra II butternut squash, I know some folks already have an OP version of it that they are working towards which resemple a nice, large, straight version of a neck pumpkin. The vines aren't terribly overbearing and give a good set of fruit so you may want to check it out.
-Alan
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Post by johno on Nov 14, 2007 18:04:14 GMT -5
I'll have to check that out. Thanks for saving me some disappointments!
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Post by Alan on Nov 17, 2007 0:36:17 GMT -5
Glad to be of assistance Johno, you could just do like me and mix it up and see what happens, throw in some Ultra II, some butternut, neck pumpkin, cheese pumpkin, anything like that and see what happens a few years down the line.
When It comes to winter squash I'm much like the native americans, mix it up a bit, pick what you like, throw out the rest.
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Post by johno on Nov 24, 2007 17:01:35 GMT -5
"When It comes to winter squash I'm much like the native americans, mix it up a bit, pick what you like, throw out the rest." Alan That's the basic idea.  I want to be a little selective what I throw in the mix, mostly because I'm working in limited space. *Neck pumpkins are a precursor to butternuts, so they'll be in the mix if I get my hands on some seeds. I'd like to find a good bush butternut as well. *Several of the Japanese C. moschatas are nice - meaty, nutty flavor, various sizes. I'll include at least one or two of them. I love Shishigatani, but I'm thinking a larger one would be good in addition. *Seminole pumpkin is bursting at the seams with genes. The Seminole Indians sometimes crossed them for a boost of hybrid vigor. The typical form is a small, somewhat teardrop shaped orange/buff colored pumpkin, but they are occasionally larger and/or striped. Anyway, I have yet to taste a better pumpkin, so they are definitely in the mix. I didn't have much luck finding Ultra II Butternut. Who sells them? |
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Post by Alan on Nov 26, 2007 0:21:34 GMT -5
Try searching for the Ultra HP and see what you find, make sure you find one with the pronounced long neck and you'll be on the right track, it appears there is some major mislabeling somewhere within this variety. I'll look and see if I can find it online for you here shortly.
-alan
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Post by johno on Nov 26, 2007 0:51:57 GMT -5
Stokes has it, but they say it has shorter necks. About ten pounds, but lots of leaf cover - I take it that means long vines?
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Post by Alan on Nov 26, 2007 15:41:32 GMT -5
Yeah, that generally means long vines, but that is also not the correct variety. True Ultra HP should be about 15 or more inches long, with a straight neck. Vesseys used to have them, but upon checking it looks like they no longer do. I'll do some more checking and see what I find, I've got a very few saved seeds to de-hybridize for next year, if you can't find any I can probably send a couple your way. Another thing that I'm noticing is that at some point in time they did change the name from Ultra II to Ultra HP which may be leading to some confusion for us in looking for it, i know it's out there, it's just a matter of finding a seed source.
I'll let you know what I find.
-Alan
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Post by PapaVic on Nov 26, 2007 18:14:53 GMT -5
Ultra HP was bred by Hollar Seeds. Here is a link to what they show as the correct size and shape and an explanation of why the necks might curve under some conditions: www.hollarseeds.com/WinterSquash/ultraHP.htmHere's a chart of some of their other creations: www.hollarseeds.com/WinterSquash/IndexWinterSquash.htmThat Frisco F1 sure looks good! Stokes shows Ultra HP in their new 2008 catalog along with Atlas and Avalon, another Hollar butternut, on page 49. I wish I'd read this thread earlier today ... I just mailed off an order to Stokes including for Cream of the Crop compact bush acorn type, and could've included a request for some Ultra HP for y'all dammit. Anyway ... here's a link to a list of distributors for Hollar Seeds: www.hollarseeds.com/OurCompany/Distributors/distributors.htmMaybe one of them can get y'all what you're looking for. pv |
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Nov 26, 2007 20:11:01 GMT -5
Veseys also used to sell a single serving Spaghetti Squash and I don't see it listed online anymore either? I should get a catalogue from them soon. I'll see if perhaps it's in the 2008 hardcopy listings. Or maybe they've lost a supplier?
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Post by Alan on Nov 28, 2007 23:02:57 GMT -5
Thanks Bill, good link, though I wish we could find something to clear up the name descrepancy. Anyhow, i've never had any curved necks with them, only straight, slightly "lumpy" and fat necks, they weigh quite a bit and sell really well here.
-Alan
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Post by johno on Nov 30, 2007 12:25:13 GMT -5
I found a couple of interesting hybrid butternuts that meet my two qualities of early and short vined in my new Stokes catalog.
Early Butternut hybrid - 75 days/semi bush/7" fruit
Atlas - 90 days/short vine/4 lb fruit
Has anyone grown these, or are they too new?
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Post by PapaVic on Nov 30, 2007 18:10:08 GMT -5
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I want to be a little selective what I throw in the mix, mostly because I'm working in limited space.
