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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 4, 2009 20:54:51 GMT -5
Bulking them up? What exactly do you mean by that? Like increasing the individual bulb size or getting a large number of plants growing simultaneously?
You know, now that you mention shallots, these are not anything like shallots are they? Shallots are on my "to be grown" list. Round one didn't pan out and this year didn't have enough money for seed. Not a biggie though because this year is the first year seeing all our "plottlets" planted and really having an opportunity to kick back and observe how the soil, weeds, and insects interact with our plants. If I pick nothing else from my garden this season, it's been a huge success in terms of learning.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 4, 2009 22:48:03 GMT -5
My onions are about shallott size, but I've been bulking them up and I haven't tried any yet. I'll have a crop this year though, and then I'll see whether I want to grow them for bulbs or greens! Get one thing set in your head and that is that you are never going to grow walking onions for their bulbs. That is not their nature. They are grown for their early spring onions and fall scallions. That was always their importance in the human diet. In fact, bulbing onions as we know them aren't much more than 100 years old and originated from shallots. If it's bulbs you are after, grow a bulbing type. Use the walking onions for what they were intended for, their greens. When my onions begin making topsets, they will be available to whomever wants some. (Heritage Sweet is now growing in Europe because of me.) Probably July will be when the sets are dry enough to ship. Martin |
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Post by canadamike on Jun 5, 2009 0:47:28 GMT -5
Martin, Put me in for the heritage sweet please, I'll trade them for perennial wild leeks  have you tried them? I sent seeds of them all over , and lost my own crop to a flying greenhouse, but have some in the ground, and boy oh boy, thanks to Orflo, I have tasted these beauties and know a bit more about the divine  . On the other hand MJ, I am not sure I should consider shallots from seeds as true shallots, certainly not all the time. A lot of them are in fact a new type of onion called ''ÉCHALLION'' in France, instead of ''ÉCHALOTTE''. They are much bigger, grown from seeds, and single long-ish onions, not dividers like true shallots, which are ALWAYS small ( and devilishly delicious ). Échallions are very popular because apart from some nuances, they are pretty much perfectly shallot type taste wise, so close to the best ''cuisine'' onions. I tried to get a big supply of seeds from France last year, of the ''CUISSE DE POULET DU POITOU'' variety, also called ZÉBRUNE, so they would basically be my main cooking onion, but I fast learned they need to be ordered early. I do not know of any true shallot that grows from seeds. None of the ones I grew ever did anyway, nor produced any seed. |
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Post by grungy on Jun 5, 2009 1:00:13 GMT -5
Martin, please put me down for a couple, also. I don't have a clue what to offer you in trade, though.
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Post by robertb on Jun 5, 2009 4:00:32 GMT -5
That solves one thing; I wasn't quite sure what to do with the onions! Shows how much information there is available about them. We use masses of spring onions so that will come in handy.
Bulking them up simply means increasing the number and getting them up to full size. It's taken a while but I now have enough to be worthwhile.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 5, 2009 12:04:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Martin! Sounds like that would be perfect for my needs! I would appreciate some as well.
Sadly, my trade is supposed to be quaresmali but I'm out of business at the moment due to the humidity. These things are supposed to be like bricks but they are positively flacid! I owe Val and Patrick, would you be up for some garden rags instead? I have a bolt of unbleached muslin and I cut rectangles and hem them up. They I use them as headbands, hankies, I keep a wet one in my work basket to wrap tender greens in if I'm not taking them directly into the house, etc. Very useful! Val and Patrick, would you guys like some of these instead of the quaresmali?
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 5, 2009 12:05:27 GMT -5
Oh, nearly forgot to ask you Martin! Do you know of any medicinal qualities beyond spring tonics?
Michel, I would be interested in learning more about the shallots as well. In California we had a wonderful produce stand that sold "true" shallots, the divided kind. I adore them despite the fact that they kill my eyes! I would actually use more shallots than onions if I grew my own. The seed I was getting is call "Ed's Red". They never were successful so I have no clue whether they were true or not. I would love to get some of those as well.
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Post by grungy on Jun 5, 2009 12:32:50 GMT -5
Jo, please don't worry about "owing". The pleasure of sending you the tomato seeds, was ours. Just learn to save seeds and pass them on, is more than enough payment. Glad you enjoyed what we sent.
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Post by robertb on Jun 5, 2009 14:45:36 GMT -5
In California we had a wonderful produce stand that sold "true" shallots, the divided kind. I adore them despite the fact that they kill my eyes! I would actually use more shallots than onions if I grew my own. The seed I was getting is call "Ed's Red". They never were successful so I have no clue whether they were true or not. I would love to get some of those as well. By 'true shallots' do you mean the small clumping onions? I never know till I ask as so many things have a different name on the far side of the Atlantic. I haven't been successful with them, but after the last couple of years, it's become obvious that many of my failures have been down to waterlogging. Maybe raised beds will sort some of it out. |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 5, 2009 17:59:01 GMT -5
I am presuming on "Canada Mike"'s description of "true" shallot. As I understand it, they are small, about 3" across? Maybe? And when you peel and cut them, there is generally 2 or 3 "sections". It's sort of like the occasional "mutant" onion that has a spare onion growing on it's side. The sections don't have their own skins as garlic would.
I adore alliums for flavor but I demand a large quantity of them in our diet for health purposes. I have not had much success either in spite of planting tons of all kinds of seeds. However, I believe my failures are due to a lack of knowledge of how and when to plant and how to tend them. I enjoyed moderate success over the winter growing a few common chives and onions from sets. I used the onion tops and chives through the winter. Very early this spring I purchased garlic from the store and put some in a raised bed then put more in a row in our #9 plot. They now look like what I know as "spring onions" but with flat leaves and a more leek like growth habit. The flavor is exquisite and I use the green separate from the white just as I would a spring onion. Spring onions to me are the sort you get at the store that don't have bulbs. They are used a lot as garnish in Asian cuisine.
I wish you well in your battle against the water logging!
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Post by canadamike on Jun 5, 2009 22:27:54 GMT -5
Multiplier onions, of the same subgroup, allium cepa , agregata group, are often called shallots. True ones have a brownish skin and grayish/ light violet flesh.
Their true moment is once cooked, they do transform a meal better than regular onions.
They are diced extremely fine for haute cuisine purpose. In stellar restaurants, young apprentices dice bags of 5 pounds of them for the day every morning. Culinary robots mash them too much, expelling the juice.
Working with them takes time, love of cooking and patience, but offer many culinary rewards. They lend a particularly refined taste to anything they are cooked with. It is really hard to define, but transform something very good into exquisite.
The kind of detail hard to explain to somebody never having used them, who probably thinks onions are onions, but one of the most basic ingredient of fine cuisine. To a lot of chefs, using regular onions instead of shallots ( in most recipes) is akin to pissing in the soup.
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Post by grungy on Jun 5, 2009 23:18:26 GMT -5
Michel, as usual you had me drooling all over the keyboard until the last 4 words. Yuck! <smiles>
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Post by canadamike on Jun 6, 2009 0:58:48 GMT -5
Well, I know you enough to expect lots of shallots and ''échallions'' in your garden next season. Here is a good adress for échallions ''CUISSE DE POULET DU POITOU'' ( Poitou is a region of France, and ''cuisse de poulet'' means ''chicken leg'' )  www.123seed.com/index.php?language=enThey are also the ones selling climbing true ''petit pois'' ( very small peas), ROI DES CONSERVES ( canning king) . Such small climbers are unavailable in North America, even at SSE. And many other interesting things. They really are worth a visit. |
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Post by grungy on Jun 6, 2009 1:07:44 GMT -5
Merci, mon cher. How well you know me. Looks absolutely delicious.
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Post by PatrickW on Jun 6, 2009 2:50:17 GMT -5
Mike: You do have a way with words, and that does sound really tasty!
Robert: Don't feel too bad if you are confused with the term shallot, there are lots of different words used to describe nearly or exactly the same onion. Potato onions, nesting onions, shallots and multiplier onions all refer to more or less the same thing, and I suspect different terms are more popular in different parts of North America.
Jo: Don't feel of it like an obligation! I'm not expecting anything in return.
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have you tried them? I sent seeds of them all over , and lost my own crop to a flying greenhouse, but have some in the ground, and boy oh boy, thanks to Orflo, I have tasted these beauties and know a bit more about the divine 
.
