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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 10, 2009 6:32:41 GMT -5
Just what exactly IS a potato onion? I was under the impression my leg was being pulled... There really IS a potato onion?
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Post by PatrickW on Jun 10, 2009 13:47:02 GMT -5
A potato onion gets it's name because it grows in the ground like a potato, in other words you plant one and several more grow from it. My impression is this name is more common in the South, and like Martin just said it's usually associated with a poor man's onion, even though it's very hard to grow and tastes really good! While there are varieties called this and that potato onion, in fact there is little difference between shallots and other kinds of 'nesting' or other perennial onions that form root divisions.
Baker Creek sells a variety of potato onion in the fall. It didn't do well in my climate, but would probably do well in yours.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 10, 2009 18:39:47 GMT -5
This is all very fascinating. Alliums are so varied and while I've always known it, I haven't had reason to give it much thought. I'll have to look into the potato onions for a fall planting for certain. Thanks!
By the by, the tomato was fixed by cutting it down all together. Not horrible because there were 2 plants in the same hole and the companion is doing just fine. However, the neighbor is showing "freckles" on one of the upper stems. Tomorrow I'll make a closer examination and probably cut off what needs to go away.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 10, 2009 23:22:03 GMT -5
Just what exactly IS a potato onion? I was under the impression my leg was being pulled... There really IS a potato onion? As I said, potato onions are the same as shallots. As Patrick said, they are the onion of the South. In fact, it's the only long-storage onion that can be grown in the short day area. Their storage quality is such that my 2009 crop is now a foot tall while we are still eating the 2008 crop. Problem is that maximum size usually isn't much larger than a golf ball. But like shallots, their primary use is for cooking rather than slicing. Nevertheless I still like them sliced raw in sandwiches as their taste is worth the extra effort. Propagation is exactly like other shallots. One plants the smallest bulbs to obtain a few large bulbs. One plants large bulbs to obtain many small bulbs. Martin |
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Post by PatrickW on Jun 11, 2009 5:40:15 GMT -5
Jo: I'm glad your plant is okay, You'll probably spend the rest of the season chasing freckles. Just keep on top of it and remove them as they appear, and hopefully you'll avoid a big outbreak.
Be sure to destroy infected foliage by burning it or throwing it away, and don't just compost it. At the end of the year, be sure to clean up the area carefully and remove all the old plant debris, and be sure not to compost this either. If you can, it's probably a good idea to not use that spot for tomatoes again for 2-3 years.
This is the best way to deal with similar problems on all plants.
Too much fertilizer can make this kind of problem much worse, by stressing the plants and causing them to produce excessive foliage. If you are using any chemical fertilizer or compost that may have fresh manure left in it, you should suspect this may be part of the problem.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 11, 2009 8:17:56 GMT -5
Yep, so far so good. The trash is going to the terra preta pit so it's burned. However, it is also composted. Which makes me ponder this, "Is there a test that would examine the content of the results of the pit at the point where we are ready to release it into the garden?" This is an important question as the experiment as planned will "cook" for a year then "cure" for a year prior to being used. Though I must confess, I'm being tempted to use some of the stuff from the bottom sooner rather than later. I'm thinking of raking down to the bottom, removing about 10 to 20 cubic feet of material to a pile, then covering it with a tarp or something and allow it to cure until next spring. We did add a 40 lb bag of dolomite lime to that particular plot immediately prior to planting. I don't think any other chemical fertilizer was used but Mike might have added some 10-10-10 when I wasn't looking. If he did, it would have been something to the tune of about 5 lbs. As of 2 days ago, the plants are developing buds and yesterday I noticed a few blooms on the Hartman's Yellow Gooseberry and on the Green Sausage. Both are heirlooms. On the virus resistant plants, there are buds, but no blooms yet. Interestingly, it seems that they have really shot up in height and foliage since I went through and trimmed the lowest bracts. I removed all the lowest levels that bent towards the ground. The one that go straight up, I left intact. I did notice yesterday that there are some more that are touching the ground that I will remove today along with the freckly piece. Seems sort of crazy to be so focused on one plant! Especially with so many other things doing so well all around.  |
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Post by robertb on Jun 21, 2009 13:49:45 GMT -5
Is there a site out there with pics of different types of topsetting onions? It would be good to be able to see what the differences are.
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Post by PatrickW on Jun 21, 2009 16:02:42 GMT -5
Robert,
One of the issues with perennial onions of all kinds is they are not widely grown and many are exceedingly rare. One of the more widely grown ones, the yellow potato onion, was apparently found after a long search in one garden. It was grown out and is now what everyone grows. The same is likely true with topsetting onions, and 10 years ago many of them were probably nearly extinct. Even now, there aren't many varieties widely available. The exception of course is the Egyptian Walking Onion, which is pretty common. The catawissa onion is also not what I would call rare anymore.
The only two people I have ever known to post pictures of them on the Internet are Søren (http://toads.wordpress.com/) and me . It doesn't mean there aren't other pictures out there, but I think you'll have to look around a bit.
I think a lot of gardeners out there don't think of them as very interesting. Like I mentioned before, there are also us other gardeners who can't get enough of them.
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Post by robertb on Jun 21, 2009 17:37:34 GMT -5
That's what I suspected. I do have a tendency to get interested in the obscure!
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Post by Jim on Jul 21, 2009 20:46:25 GMT -5
I'm not really a baker creek fan. Can anyone make some recommendations as to where one could find a few different varities of multipliers and topsetters...I just ate a few walking onions and loved them...
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 21, 2009 20:54:32 GMT -5
I second that, Id love to know a source of a multiplying walking type onion, with decent productiveness, and very hardy.
I have some I got from native seeds, and they are VERY hardy, and tasty, but they dont produce so much.
any thoughts on the best onions for a arid climate, of ANY type
I want LONG keepers, I found long keeping garlic, and have three types that keep a year, set up to order from some place with like 100 varieties, If I could find a few long keeping onions Id be set in that area, Other herbs and spices are fine dried to my tastes
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Post by PatrickW on Jul 22, 2009 2:29:16 GMT -5
I'm growing the 'Amish Spreading Onion', but I'm afraid my topsets are all spoken for this year. I might still have some Egyptian Walking Onion Topsets if anyone is interested.
Otherwise the best place for these types of onions is the SSE, Stephen (stevil here in this forum), Martin (paquebot here), Søren (toad here) or maybe me next year...
It's a little late to be asking for them now. The best thing is to start asking about them in the spring.
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Post by Jim on Jul 22, 2009 9:57:48 GMT -5
I found yellow potato onions at southern exposure and I have some walking onion topsets, I think my grandmother has some catawissa onions as hers are much longer bluer stalks and larger topsets. If anyone has any other varieties that they'd like to sell or trade for please let me know.
Thanks,
Jim
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 22, 2009 10:20:59 GMT -5
Patrick Id like some, but seems like a waste to send them all the way over the ocean. I think I can find them, I dont know, I dont seem to have good luck with onions and garlic, sinc eI always forget you have to order them at certain times. Although thnks to the forums Ive been finding lately, someone alerted me to it being time to order garlic. I gues sI should have realised it was time to pick out some onions too.. Oh well.
I do have some to try from seed. I didnt get around to. Some japanese bunching type. I was more just curious if people knew the names of the best keepers or the hardiest ones. These egyptians ones though do sound neat, but its so windy here, Id be affriad theyd be pushed rather then walking around the yard, lol. I havent spent as much time ubnderstanding onions yet, Ive been starting with the staples......
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Post by stevil on Jul 22, 2009 10:40:58 GMT -5
Until joining SSE a few years ago, I hadn’t realised either that there are many varieties of what are known as Egyptian Onions in the UK and Luftløk (Air Onion) or Etasjeløk (Story Onion – as in multi-story building) here in Norway. The latter name suggests that it is the Catawissa strain that is in circulation here. Last year I was asked by the Norwegian Genetic Resource Centre (NRGC) if I would be interested to work on a small project collecting and documenting traditional perennial edible onions in Norwegian gardens or naturalised from gardens and, even better, that they would pay me for my efforts! I succeeded also in getting time off from my main job to work on this. Well, I’m now into the second year of this project.
Concerning shallots, there was a project here in the 1970s, when it was realised that local varieties of shallots were disappearing (Allium cepa began to be cultivated in the 1950s) and 12 land races were collected and conserved in a national collection. In my project, only 4 people have so far been found still growing traditional varieties and it is often commented that the shallots are getting smaller and more difficult to overwinter (probably due to viruses). NRGC plan to clean this old material. Other Scandinavian countries have also collected shallots and it is often stated that old material from the eastern parts (e.g., Finland) are of the Potato Onion form....
Concerning Walking Onions, I have now received material from some 15 locations in Norway, all of which can be traced back some 50-years (the criterion used for a traditional variety). Most seem to be of the Catawissa strain – its peculiarity leads to it being sought after by other gardeners and it therefore spreads more efficiently. It was probably introduced to Norway from the US/Canada through emigrant families about 100 years ago.
I don’t have the space in my garden to grow out and compare all this material. We are, however, promised some space at the Botanical Gardens in Trondheim for the follow on work where we can compare under similar growing conditions. In addition to the material from old gardens in Norway, I have been trying to put together a reference collection of named varieties of walking onions and have so far the following:
Catawissa Red (USA)
Cook’s Multiplier (USA – came from a grower in Nashville who grew it in winter and despite this has proven hardy here!)
Mc. Cullar’s White Topset (USA)
Heritage Sweet White Multiplier (USA – originally from Martin – thanks – via Denmark)
Grandma Va’s (USA) – topsets seem to be larger than my Red Catawissa, but seems similar otherwise to Catawissa, although it could be the growing conditions.
All these seem to be of the Allium x proliferum type – incidentally, it seems that walking onions are crosses between Allium fistulosum (explaining the hardiness) and Allium cepa which have presumably occurred accidentally where the parents have been grown together.
Another type seems to be recognised – Allium x cornutum which has Allium cepa as one parent and an unknown species (not fistulosum) as second parent. It has smaller topsets and flowers which are pinkish, not white as in A. x proliferum. I’ve been promised some material of this one!
I also hope to get a sample of the Wakegi Onion, an asiatic cross between shallot and A. fistulosum. Sterile, although normal flowers. It’s apparently not that hardy though.
I am still interested in adding to our collection and will trade for other named varieties. Note that I don’t have (knowingly anyway) the true Red Egyptian. I’m also interested in Beltsville Bunching if anyone has that one?
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