On wintermelons/wax gourds

[marjeta]

Blueadzuki, it was a joke about the age. Is it because I don't use enough ? Plus, you can read the age in the profile.

[Hristo]

Thanks Blue! Seems to me that this will be my last year growing them...

[Hristo]

Well, this "dill" awakened my curiosity. Isn't possible this to be Cumin (Cuminum cyminum) or Ajwain (Trachyspermum ammi)? I have never grown Cumin and do not know how the leaves smell, but they do look somewhat like a dill leaves, also the chinese name translates like "small fennel". I have grown Ajwain and the leaves too look somewhat like a dill leaves and they are aromatic (differently than dill)

[grunt]

Marjeta, Blue: Age won't help with rationality in regards to gardening = I'm 68 and thinking about messing with plant breeding = how rational is that?

[marjeta]

Hehe, Grunt. That's the spirit.

[blueadzuki]

Apr 22, 2010 21:41:08 GMT -5 Hristo said:

Well, this "dill" awakened my curiosity. Isn't possible this to be Cumin (Cuminum cyminum) or Ajwain (Trachyspermum ammi)? I have never grown Cumin and do not know how the leaves smell, but they do look somewhat like a dill leaves, also the chinese name translates like "small fennel". I have grown Ajwain and the leaves too look somewhat like a dill leaves and they are aromatic (differently than dill)

A good guess, Hristo but in this case, an incorrect one. I smelled the seed when it went into the ground and it did smell like dill seed (albeit faintly and sort of mixed up with some other scents I couln't identify) I an familiar with the scents of both cumin and ajawain and this smelled like neither. In this case the stuff probalby is extactly what it says it is (minus the "chives" bit). Since I bumped into the packets I have since learned that dill is not unkown in China; some parts of the north use it, and Uighur cuisine is simply loaded with the stuff. Apparenty it was introduced from the West (the "West" in this case being the eastern parts of the former Russain empire) at some point. I actually found a duping stall on one of my Chinatown trips whose chefs were from the north and they had dill dumplings. All the rest may simply be the fact that the dill they grow in China is not the same as the dill we grow here in the west; the odor variations may simpy be quirks of the strains genetics. The wole argument may be academic though as I check every supermarket seed display is see once a week when I go into Chinatown and while I have seen the seed company's packets, they do not seem to still stock the herb (or at least none of the supermarkets is ordering it) Once of them even let me go trough a box that had just come in fresh form the packers of the normal assortemnt and there was none. The company appears to have simply stopped selling this particual herb.

[Hristo]

It will be even better if it's simply unusual dill variety. Probably you can confirm that easily - cross it with usual dill and if the cross catch......

[blueadzuki]

Apr 23, 2010 14:10:51 GMT -5 Hristo said:

It will be even better if it's simply unusual dill variety. Probably you can confirm that easily - cross it with usual dill and if the cross catch......

True but that requires I FIND more of the unusual one; I can't cross what I don't have. Plus given the extreme tinyness of dill flowers (remeber that umbel is a compound of hundreds) and the fact I am fairly sure dill is self-fertile and crossed readily (according to what I've read, it will even cross with fennel, even though they are in seperate genera) doing a controlled cross (where I'd be able to tell if the two had made a fertile cross, as opposed to a self pollination) would likey be all but impossible. Certialy I don have the patirence to sit out in my garden with a pair of tweezers and a magfying glass (or more likey sice I'd need both hands, one of those jewlers loupes that go over your head, plucking all the anthers out of one of the parents.

[Hristo]

My bad, I didn't realized that you are out of seeds

[maisazzurro]

I am bringing this post back from the dead, as I am going to attempt to grow winter melon (kundol, Benincasa hispida) for the first time this year. I have been asked for years by my partner to grow it for him. But, this is also the first year I have enough space to grow. It is so tasty in soup. It is a round type.

I know this is an old post, but I would like to contribute. I used to live near Chinatown in Chicago for 10 years. Chicago is a zone 5, but we are very paved and vertical, that a micro climate does form. Almost everyone had a garden in the neighborhood. Long beans, stem lettuce, bitter melons, edible bottle gourds, winter melons, every asian market vegetable. I would state, most were grown vertically. Anything on a vine was grown on poles and trellis system. Even small gangways have 10 gallon soy sauce buckets filled with dirt and poles for growing vegetables.

The house in front of where we parked out car grew winter melon in their front yard. The people in our neighborhood grew the round type with the white waxiness over the skin as it matured. It was west facing. Most of the yard was brick with small patches of dirt near the house. The plants were grown in the dirt and as the plant grew, would cover the brick area and chain link fence. The also grew it sometimes on the chain link fence on the south side of the house.

I am always asked or determined to grow Asian vegetables. One day I want to grow all the vegetables mentioned in the traditional Filipino folk song "Bahay Kubo" Maybe not upo, I am not a big fan of edible bottle gourd. I struggle with bitter melon (amapalaya, Momordica charanti). However, our neighbors in the city grew it easily on chain link fence and trellises. The house near my bus stop grew it on their black iron east facing front yard fence, and had even ripe fruit (orange) which is good for seed saving.

I am willing to swap advice with anyone interested in growing Asian vegetables. I am no expert, but I have been growing them or living around or with people who do grow them. Any advice for winter melon growing is welcome, it is my first time, but I have seen it thrive in my old Chicago neighborhood (as well as long beans and bitter melon).

I have gotten seeds from online vendors, Japanese Markets, Chinese Markets, Korean Super Center Markets, and relatives from the Philippines. Korean market had nice seeds for Asian Chives. Think of a thicker garlic chive, not as feotid, great for bulgoi, like what the sell in Chinatown. Those are fun to blanch as they grow and sell more at markets.

[rowan]

I am growing winter melon/wax gourd for the first time this year. They were a bit slow to start with but when they got going they exploded with growth. They are loving our extreme heat this year and already have some huge fruit on them. I should take a picture. I am wondering if they would make a good citron substitute as many of the older people around here love their melon jam and if these can be used I won't have any crossing problems with my current watermelons. I really don't want to grow citron.

[blueadzuki]

You know, I've sometimes thought the same thing, given that WM flesh is sort of similar to the white part of a watermelon. The only difference might be that it would be a bit less firm (which wouldn't be much of a downside if you are making jam out of it).

About the only WM growing advice I can think of is to maybe keep it to the smaller fruited strains, unless you are planning to share a lot of fruit. A 100lb gourd is not easily consumed completely by one person.

Looked up song. Assuming the pictures in the version I found were accurate, I may be able to help you with some of the odder ones, particularly legumes. I have seed for guar (sitaw) and Lablab beans (bataw) provided you are content with a green one (that's actually usually a better idea if you are planning to eat them, the greener/whiter the lablab the longer it is probably safe to eat before getting ripe enough to be toxic.)

The one you will probably have a lot of problems with is wingbeans (sigarlyas). Those need a REALLY long season climate. I have rarely heard of them going to fruit in this country much further north than the bottom of Florida. I have HEARD of a strain called the Hunan that is supposed to work a bit further north, but haven't seen it listed for ages. If you do get any to go seed to seed let me know, particularly if you find a strain with pale tan seeds (mature wingbean seed is supposed to be usable to make a tofu like product, but when soaked, the seed emits a smell I do not equate with things safe to eat without leaching. So I'm banking that, as the "normal" seed color of brown has this smell, the pale tan version (I have seen it) might be safer (I do not even want to think of trying with the black seeded version).

For my part, someone sent me a few wingbean seeds from India a while back. I'll find a place for them this spring and hope for the best.