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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 26, 2011 11:55:13 GMT -5
I can just see it "Mybighair and the Search for the Holy Kale", the next blockbuster movie  Great stuff! I'd watch it. ;D |
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Feb 27, 2011 10:04:07 GMT -5
C'est encore au Ch. à faucher qu'il faut rapporter le Choit vivace ele Daubenton,sorte de Colza
Basically, to harvest Chou d'Aubenton, a variety derived from a shooting 'rape' plant, with shoots which are almost woody, branching out, which will live for four or five years, ...IF certain branches flower, then the rest will stop producing leaves and growing longer.
à tige presque ligneuse, ramifiée, pouvant vivre quatre et cinq ans,et dont certaines branches fleurissent sans que les autres cessent de s'allonger et de produire des feuilles.
This plant and all the cultivated cabbages the one which most approaches the wild cabbage which you find frequently on the maritime coasts of western Europe, has this distinct characteristic which means if you deflower some branches then others will continue to grow and produce shoots in the following years.
Cette dernière plante est, de tous les choux cultivés, celui qui se rappoche leplus du Chou sauvage, que l'on trouve assez fréquemment sur les côtes maritimes de l'Europe occidentale : c'est précisément un de ses caractères distinctifs que defleurir à l'extrémité de certains rameaux pendant que le reste de la plante continueà s'accroître et que d'autres ramifications se préparent à produire l'année suivante.
Essentially, just keep taking new cuttings and cut off the flowering shoots on all existing plants if you want to keep this cabbage going year after year.
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Post by stevil on Feb 28, 2011 2:37:55 GMT -5
Merci, Monsieur Fox!
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Post by tikilittle on Mar 14, 2011 16:42:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the good wishes for the baby all. I quite understand the contradictory references to Ragged Jack/Red Russian kale. I doesn't take long before the references to 'Woburn Kale' and 'Ragged Jack' get confusing, they quite quickly become referred to as separate varieties. 'Woburn Kale' then disappears but 'Ragged Jack' maintains the reference to it's being perennial. One of the references for 'Woburn Kale' states that it was cut back in March or April to regrow from the base so the reference to Cottagers likely describes a similar practace. I've posted a link to one of the better references for Woburn Kale's vegetable cultivation below. books.google.com/books?id=FsE-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA110&dq=Woburn+perennial+kale&ei=TJZjTZTuDIrOUPjKuPgO&cd=3#v=onepage&q=Woburn%20perennial%20kale&f=falseYou'll see fron the text that 'Woburn Kale' was grown as an ornamental at Woburn Abbey and I seem to remember one reference (that I cant find now) to it being cut back hard in winter to regrow in spring. I have contacted both 'Knightshayes Court' and 'Woburn Abbey' to source these kales. I haven't managed to get through to the head gardener at Knightshayes as yet, but I have established the head gardener at Woburn has no knowledge of 'Woburn Kale', and nor do the RHS who were apparently sent cuttings. But as this was in the 1800's it's no great surprise. There may well be relic populations of perennial kale growing in old cottage gardens all over the UK but I suspect most have been lost. There are certainly very few references to them on line, I'd imagine that anyone still growing these kales is quite elderly by now so unlikely to use the internet. At some point I'm going to have to go out to all the little villages near were these kales were grown in search of gardeners that still cultivate them. Obviously the area around Woburn Abbey will be first on the list. I got so excited to see that someone else is looking for Woburn Kale. This last year I also contacted Woburn Abbey and they said, "We unfortunately do not have any Woburn kale If you do come across some ha Duke is very interested in some" Apparently, the Horticultural Society of London went bankrupt in the mid-1800's and a lot of the herbarium was auctioned off. There were attempts to buy back a lot of them in the 1860's when the Royal Horticultural Society was formed, but Woburn Kale doesn't have any record to my understanding. I've tried is to see who would George Sinclair have given his woburn kale to, but didn't get too far. There's quite a bit about him in this wikipedia article. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sinclair_(horticulturist) |
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Post by atimberline on Apr 4, 2011 11:18:10 GMT -5
Wow.... you have done great work in getting all this material together... a lot of work. I would love to help keep this going, and hope others here will also
Tim
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Post by robertb on May 5, 2011 12:34:34 GMT -5
What's the best time to take cuttings from Daubenton's?
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Post by cortona on May 5, 2011 16:50:09 GMT -5
i'm interested in this too, thanks to bertiefox i've now two plants of daubenton growing in my garden...interessant plants with lots of potential!
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Post by robertb on May 6, 2011 4:56:03 GMT -5
I just acquired two rooted cuttings from Goodlife; that's why I asked!
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Post by ottawagardener on May 10, 2011 17:22:22 GMT -5
Mine grew huge in two years. Sadly the adults are struggling here but the juniors (cuttings) made it through the winter!
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Post by stevil on May 11, 2011 2:39:47 GMT -5
Mine grew huge in two years. Sadly the adults are struggling here but the juniors (cuttings) made it through the winter! I took cuttings of Daubenton, Daubenton variegated and Tree Collards in September which I overwintered inside in case the adults died outside (they did) - all took well apart from variegated which I lost.... By the way, HDRA (Garden Organic) kindly sent me some seed of Cottager's, so I now have some small plants of that. |
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on May 12, 2011 9:31:20 GMT -5
My Daubenton has flowered a little but not much. What strikes me is the range of the conditions of the plants considering they are all genetically identical. One has gone yellow and practically died (pulled it out this morning) several are scrawny with lots of little leaves on hard stems, and one is growing away like it is spring cabbage with huge leafy shoots which are still delicious to eat. They are all planted within twenty metres of each other but it just shows what a slight difference to soil and shading etc. can create in plants. I did some new cuttings in early spring but the heat has just about dried those up.
p.s. I used to love Cottagers Kale and was interested to read above that you can still get the seed through Garden Organic. I must definitely do so and get some plants going for next winter.
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Post by extremegardener on May 14, 2011 14:52:18 GMT -5
Mine grew huge in two years. Sadly the adults are struggling here but the juniors (cuttings) made it through the winter! Where were the cuttings overwintered? |
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Post by ottawagardener on May 14, 2011 16:58:09 GMT -5
They were overwintered in the ground outside. They overwintered well for 2 years but the third year perhaps they were just too large to be adequately protected by the snow.
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Post by extremegardener on May 15, 2011 7:30:21 GMT -5
They were overwintered in the ground outside. They overwintered well for 2 years but the third year perhaps they were just too large to be adequately protected by the snow. That's very interesting. Any mulch or other protection? I took cuttings of Daubenton, Daubenton variegated and Tree Collards in September which I overwintered inside in case the adults died outside (they did) - all took well apart from variegated which I lost.... Can you say more about how you overwinter the cuttings inside (greenhouse, root cellar, house window. etc.?) |
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Post by ottawagardener on May 15, 2011 11:18:12 GMT -5
I didn't give them any additional protection though they were planted against a fence on the western(ish) side so wind may have added to the snow insulation.
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Great stuff!
