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Post by ottawagardener on Aug 18, 2010 14:30:03 GMT -5
Congratulations on the new baby!!!
Those seedlings look very promising. Looking forward to updates.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Jan 23, 2011 12:36:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the updates on the viability of the seed from the pods which set. From what I've been told Chou d'Aubenton flowers but doesn't set viable seed so this is very interesting news.
I'm interested too in the possibility of getting other brassicas to root from stem cuttings. Crambe maritime or sea kale does of course, but I've never succeeded in getting good plants from other cuttings.
The hope has to be that by using pollen from the D'Aubenton plants you can get his easy rooting characteristic into something else, like a calabrese. That would be something else.
Good luck in any further experiments. I shall be collecting pollen from my Chou d'Aubenton this spring to try to do the same.
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Post by stevil on Feb 17, 2011 15:07:32 GMT -5
Somehow I managed to miss this thread. Great "breeding" work, Graham. I'll be paying more attention from now on. Graham kindly also gave me some cuttings in 2009 and this year I finally planted them out and they grew vigorously, but only the Tree Collard flowered but no seeds. I decided to try overwintering, taking cuttings as backup in the autumn. I was uncertain whether they would make it, but we had good snow cover so I was hoping, but then I had a Roe Deer visiting and the plants were stripped .....(this doesn't happen very often). Here's a picture of both Daubentons and the Tree Collard. Attachments:
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 17, 2011 23:33:42 GMT -5
They look beautiful!
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Post by stevil on Feb 18, 2011 3:19:32 GMT -5
Yes, I thought they were rather smart looking too! The picture was taken early in July. However, they were less attractive later in the season as they were all attacked by Cabbage White Butterflies and moths. I usually cover brassicas with Enviromesh for this reason, but didn't cover the perennials. It looks as though all my cuttings have taken. Both Daubenton and Tree Collard are gowoing well (inside), but variegated looks weaker, but I think it will pull through. I was sent cuttings of Ehwiger Kohl in the autumn, but they sadly look dead (second time I've failed with that one...)
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Post by stevil on Feb 18, 2011 3:26:54 GMT -5
I grew Tim Peter's Western Front Kale for the first time last year (I think I read that around 50% perennialise). Unfortunately all 3 of my plants (from seed) flowered (bolted) in the first year. I dug the plants up in the autumn and have stored them in my cellar and they are now starting to regrow. Attachments:
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Feb 18, 2011 7:50:14 GMT -5
Would Western Front Kale be similar to what we call 'Red Russian kale' here? From the photo it looks very similar, and I wonder if Red Russian has the same potential for being 'perennialised'?
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Post by trixtrax on Feb 19, 2011 4:35:03 GMT -5
From as I understand it Western Front is mostly a Red Russian genetic background with Brassica rapa crossed back in. Just for the record Red Russian's genetics are (Brassica oleracea x Brassica rapa) x Brassica nigra. Some varieties of Brassica napus (which includes Red Russian) have perennial traits some do not. I have some seed of a plant that survived 5 or more years in an abandoned garden in upstate New York. It's going in the Brassica napus breeding lines I am working with. Tried to save some seed already once but it failed because the deer "overpicked" it when they broke though the 9ft netted fencing lol. Brassica oleracea and especially it's wild conterparts can be perennial, as can Brassica rapa though less so, and Brassica nigra.
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Post by stevil on Feb 19, 2011 5:16:32 GMT -5
I've noticed that the spelling of Daubenton seems to be metamorphosising into Dorbenton over there.....oh, dear...
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Post by raymondo on Feb 19, 2011 5:27:53 GMT -5
Just for the record Red Russian's genetics are (Brassica oleracea x Brassica rapa) x Brassica nigra. Would you be able to point me in the direction of the source (or sources) for this information? I thought Red Russian was a B. napus (n=19) kale, a result of B. oleracea (n=9) x B. rapa (n=10). My mind struggles to see where B. nigra (n=8) fits in. |
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Feb 19, 2011 6:12:35 GMT -5
Shouldn't Daubenton be 'd'Aubenton' anyway? If we are absolutely correct it was discovered by Dr Louis Jean-Marie d'Aubenton (1716-1800).
(A pedant writes! LOL)
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Post by stevil on Feb 19, 2011 8:21:18 GMT -5
Shouldn't Daubenton be 'd'Aubenton' anyway? If we are absolutely correct it was discovered by Dr Louis Jean-Marie d'Aubenton (1716-1800). (A pedant writes! LOL) ;)You're quite right to point this out! Interesting that the origin is known. I had understood it was named after the town Aubenton. Do you have a reference to the history of Chou d'Aubenton and what about the variegated form (panaché)? |
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Post by stevil on Feb 19, 2011 8:29:03 GMT -5
Ken Fern describes a Tree Collard in his book which he got from North America in 1996. He describes it as having dark green leaves like savoy cabbage. This sounds different to the one currently doing the rounds (from Graham via eBay I understand). Are there others?
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Post by stevil on Feb 19, 2011 8:57:08 GMT -5
I did search of the SSE Yearbook archives. There's one Purple Tree Collard being offered this year. Here's the description/info, which seems to fit with mine (picture below): --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2011: 60 , Purple Tree Collard, possibly a natural hybrid, rarely flowers. Propagated by cuttings in moist soil, 3 6-8 inch cuttings. Perennial long lived (10 yrs) branching bushy collard 5-10 feet tall and wide. Drought tolerant and frost resistant. Delicious and especially sweet in winter though sometimes tough. Purple veins and highlights. Many prefer these to other collards, but I find I often use more for fodder than food. Give space or prune hard. Thrives in mild cool climates but my dad has been growing it in the Mojave Desert with summers of 110 and winters of 15 degrees F., Common in San Francisco Bay Area, however origin is unknown, possibly an African American heirloom. From large 6 year old plants at Merritt College, Oakland, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems last to have been offered in 1999. Others offered under the name Tree Collard seems to be Jersey Kale. Attachments:
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Post by robertb on Feb 19, 2011 12:46:48 GMT -5
I assume tree collards are the same as our walking stick cabbages. I've always been put off because it would be a nightmare trying to protect them from the pigeons.
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