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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 8, 2010 10:11:58 GMT -5
Hi all,
It's a long shot but I was wondering if anyone out there on the West coast has a nut or two of Hind's walnut (Julgans hindsii) they can spare. I am aware of the fact the tree is technically vulnerable endagered in the wild, but since as I understand the tree is a common rootstock out on the west coast, I assume that there must be a culivated supply somewhere, Please not I am only looking for the pure Hind's not the "Paradox" hybrids.
I am also interested if someone has it on the southern Chinese Walnut (Juglans Cathayensis) so if anyone has that I'd be interested as well, though something tells me that that will be even harder to locate
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Post by stevil on Jun 8, 2010 13:17:39 GMT -5
Can't help you I'm afraid but I have a cathayensis which is about 10 years old, but I doubt very much it will ever produce nuts as I've read it's difficult even in the UK and you probably also need more than one. I was originally given a small plant and it grew quickly to a size that I couldn't easily move, so it's there to stay... I could maybe eventually tap it for walnut syrup?  |
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Post by atash on Jun 8, 2010 16:49:27 GMT -5
www.cnplx.info/nplx/species?taxon=Juglans+hindsiiIt's a relict species and rare in the wilds, but, ironically, common in cultivation and often goes feral due to having been used as a rootstock for domesticated walnuts, and then, as often happens, the graft dies and the rootstock takes over. The problem I foresee in getting one is that selling mail order is unusual in California. A very few well-known nurseries do it but the majority do not--little incentive due to the large local market and willingness of Californians to drive. Here are some more clues, but I do not have a firm idea what the tree looks like: it is apparently naturalized in Oregon and Washington due to having been used as rootstock, and also occasional offspring of dropped nuts harvested from elsewhere. To further confuse matters: woodworkers call them "Claro walnuts" but are not specific as to which species and/or subspecies it is. Some people claim Juglans hindsii is just a variety of southern California black walnut, J. californica. "English" Walnuts are ubiquitous in my part of the state, and black walnuts rare, so I have not noticed any, sorry.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 8, 2010 18:09:41 GMT -5
www.cnplx.info/nplx/species?taxon=Juglans+hindsiiIt's a relict species and rare in the wilds, but, ironically, common in cultivation and often goes feral due to having been used as a rootstock for domesticated walnuts, and then, as often happens, the graft dies and the rootstock takes over. The problem I foresee in getting one is that selling mail order is unusual in California. A very few well-known nurseries do it but the majority do not--little incentive due to the large local market and willingness of Californians to drive. Here are some more clues, but I do not have a firm idea what the tree looks like: it is apparently naturalized in Oregon and Washington due to having been used as rootstock, and also occasional offspring of dropped nuts harvested from elsewhere. To further confuse matters: woodworkers call them "Claro walnuts" but are not specific as to which species and/or subspecies it is. Some people claim Juglans hindsii is just a variety of southern California black walnut, J. californica. "English" Walnuts are ubiquitous in my part of the state, and black walnuts rare, so I have not noticed any, sorry. Sorta the reverse around me, TONS of black walnuts a handful of English (I would have said "no english" if a person in a class I had in a summer colledge course hadn't broght two in, in thier husks from the tree in thier backyard). No that I use the back walnuts much they are such a #$@*&! to hull and crack for a nut I'm not all that fond of That one of the reasons WHY I picked these two species out to seek, as opposed to one of the other two dozen or so walnut species, out of all of the species there two are the only ones (except for one that is only found in the depths of the brazilian rainforest) whose nuts are more or less FREE of crenelations and furrows (okay tecnically cathyayensis does have furrows but it also has eight or so ribs along the sides that make the pits a lot shallower so that the nuts suppsoedly hull about as easily as if they were smooth) That's actually one of the main differences between J. hindsii and J. californica; J. californica's nuts look basically the same as J. nigra's , while Hindsii's nuts are smooth (similarly J. Cathayensis's bears a much shorter rounder nut (as well as more tomentose foliage that the regular Chinese walnut J. mandishurica , For a while I though I might be able to find the nuts for sale in a chinese market (much as I found Carya cathayenis) But it turns out that, unlike in this country, most nuts sold for consumption in china are sold pre cracked, pre-salted and pre roasted (though still in thier shells) BTW for anyone who wants to try Carya cathayenis speaking from experiance, unless you are fond of the taste of non-pecan hickories don't bother (you know that musty woody tase you get from pecans if you eat part of the inner shell? Well, ALL C. cathayensis nuts tase like that time 10) |
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Post by castanea on Jun 8, 2010 21:07:21 GMT -5
Someone on some other hort group was looking for Hindsii a couple of years ago and someone else identifed two large old trees here in northern California. Right now I don't remember any of the details but I will look around and see if I can find them.
On the other hand, you can get hindsii scionwood from GRIN and here's a description of the location of the trees where the nuts were collected in the 1980s:
On A-9 at Woodson bridge, Tehama County. A9 runs between and intersects Hwy 99 & I5 at Corning. Park at the county park on the south side of the highway, on the east side of the bridge. Habitat: Walk under the bridge and upriver about 1/2 mile, around the bend in the river until a large, multi-stemmed cottonwood, which sticks out further onto the stoney beach than the rest of the forest. Walk into the woods. Two medium-sized J. hindsii trees close together; the one to the south had most of the nuts.
Here's another from GRIN:
Yolo County. Collected along Cache Creek alongside Hwy 16 at marker Yolo 00.91. Habitat: Several trees that nuts were collected from were multi-stemmed and small. Nuts persisted on tree even though hulls dark. Nuts were picked off. Original nuts small, 3-5 to a cluster.
Another:
Butte County. Collected between River road and Pine Creek near Hwy 32 between Hamilton City and Chico. Habitat: Black walnuts all along road next to the river. Trees very closely spaced. Directly across the road from the entrance to dirt road which runs between an almond orchard and the Holstein dairy farm.
Another:
Collected in woods at intersection of Hwy 121 and Oak Circle in Napa County. Habitat: Three large walnuts around a spring, collected from the largest (multi-stemmed). Scattered small trees on hill below.
Another:
Collected on Marsh Creek Road, Contra Costa County, south of Clayton. Marsh Creek Springs county park; second entrance to the park. 12550 Marsh Creek Road. Habitat: A small tree (nuts collected from here), next to a stone picnic table.
GRIN has other hindsii listings although not all have descriptions of where they were collected.
GRIN also has three Juglans Cathayensis.
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Post by atash on Jun 9, 2010 0:20:03 GMT -5
>>That's actually one of the main differences between J. hindsii and J. californica; J. californica's nuts look basically the same as OK. Now if I see a black walnut with smooth nuts, I'll know it's a hindsii. Interesting. I would not be surprised if it exists in this city. I should ask my local tree expert; he would know and he would know where to find them. Heck we have all sorts of exotics, and that one could have slipped in from a rootstock. "English" walnuts are common here not so much because people plant them, but because squirrels get hold of them, bury them, forget a lot of them, and they come up all over the place. I get them in my yard from time to time. Once someone lets them go, then they spread even more as most folks do not bother to harvest them (such a waste!), the squirrels get them, and spread them even more. My grandfather had a black walnut tree in Chico California. I was only a young boy, and furthermore, we never ate them because of the difficulty of opening them. Too bad, because I've heard black walnuts are delicious. My mother-in-law brought some walnuts from China that are tiny--maybe 2/3 the size of an almond. No idea what species. What they lack in size they make up for in flavor, being sweeter than ours and distinctively flavored. My daughter loves them. I think I can buy them in Chinatown. Probably already roasted though and in any case not fresh. I would love a pecan tree, but alas they are hard to ripen in our cool summers.  The only native nut here I am aware of is the Filbert, which is even more common than Walnut. I'm very fond of them but it's hard to harvest them as the squirrels watch them daily and get every last one of them before I do. Ours is closely related to the European Hazelnut and reputedly crosses with it. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 9, 2010 6:01:09 GMT -5
[quote author=atash board=orchard thread=4454 post=44671 time=1276060803My mother-in-law brought some walnuts from China that are tiny--maybe 2/3 the size of an almond. No idea what species. What they lack in size they make up for in flavor, being sweeter than ours and distinctively flavored. My daughter loves them. I think I can buy them in Chinatown. Probably already roasted though and in any case not fresh. I would love a pecan tree, but alas they are hard to ripen in our cool summers. The only native nut here I am aware of is the Filbert, which is even more common than Walnut. I'm very fond of them but it's hard to harvest them as the squirrels watch them daily and get every last one of them before I do. Ours is closely related to the European Hazelnut and reputedly crosses with it.[/quote] Were those walnuts also a little bit "puffier" (wider laterally like some hickory nuts) than a normal walnut? If so, those could be the seeds of Juglans sigillata, the Iron Walnut (considered by some to be conspecific with J. regina) There really are no truly native nut trees around me except the black walnut (BTW I realize I've been assuming that your black walnuts are J. nigra whne in fact there are at least 4 possiblites J.nigra, J.california, J.major and J. Microcarpa (though the first two are the most likely, you a little far north for Arizona or Texas walnut) However there were large stands of beaked hazels ( Corylus cornuta) around the summer camp I went to as a kid (unfortunately as I was always there in early summer, no nuts were ever ripe). Yes I have also seen what happens when squirrels find a hazel tree. What always drove me crazy is the fact that it would appear that the squirrels were leaving lot of nuts left over, until you looked and discovered that all of the nuts they were dropping were the ones that had not been fetilized and were therefore hollow. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jun 19, 2010 19:11:24 GMT -5
We've got tons of Black Walnut trees around here. Actually we have three growing very well in our yard alone, that were planted by the red squirrels. They were growing in very good spots, so we let them stay.
I dont think the shells are smooth. Rather hard, so they are probably "regular" black ones. I wasnt aware there were other varieties other than english and american black.
Has anyone ever harvested the oil out of black walnuts, and made black walnut butter? I'd like to learn how.
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Post by atash on Jun 19, 2010 21:27:55 GMT -5
My informant tells me that there IS, indeed, a Juglans hindsii in Seattle, but unfortunately for your purposes, it is the only one in the area, and its neighbors are other species, and hence any seedlings, likely to be hybrids.
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Post by castanea on Jun 19, 2010 22:27:26 GMT -5
My informant tells me that there IS, indeed, a Juglans hindsii in Seattle, but unfortunately for your purposes, it is the only one in the area, and its neighbors are other species, and hence any seedlings, likely to be hybrids. Those seedlings might be interesting... |
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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 6, 2010 21:33:06 GMT -5
My informant tells me that there IS, indeed, a Juglans hindsii in Seattle, but unfortunately for your purposes, it is the only one in the area, and its neighbors are other species, and hence any seedlings, likely to be hybrids. Those seedlings might be interesting... The odd thing is, I really don't have anything against Paradox (which depending on what the other nuts in the grove are, is in some ways what some of the offspring would be, at least they might be regina-hindsii hybrids like it , in terms of what I am looking for (a walnut with the toughness of a native black but with smooth shells so they'd be easy to hull) it would be a perfectly good candidate. The reason I really am not interested in Paradox is that, from what I've heard, most Paradox selections nut poorly, if at all. Burbank apparently selected Paradox(if he did, some historins think he just lucked out and found a natural hybrid) as a timber tree first and foremost and that, as well as rootstock is apparenty what most of the sections have worked on. In fact Paradox's sterility is one of the reasons some areas love it as a city tree, it makes no pollen (so no allergy issues) and no nuts (a possible tripping hazard in a city) at least that is what I have been told. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Oct 15, 2010 9:14:00 GMT -5
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The only native nut here I am aware of is the Filbert, which is even more common than Walnut. I'm very fond of them but it's hard to harvest them as the squirrels watch them daily and get every last one of them before I do. 