Commodity prices are soaring. Grow food.

[mnjrutherford]

Applying heat to extract the oil, is, in the case of olive oil at least, the least desirable method. The "virgin" grade is the fruit pulped then filter pressed. They do that a couple times, then they apply heat, finally chemicals in order to completely express all the oil. Each method is a separate "grade" of oil and each "pressing" is a lower quality product than the one before it. The residue is also a lower quality.

My thoughts would be to press no more than twice so that you have both a higher quality of oil and a higher quality of residue. The mash could be used as animal feed, added to soaps for an exfoliant quality, or simply returned to the soil.

What about acorn oil? A couple weeks ago my youngest started bringing in acorns. Before I could catch him, we had about 40 lbs of beautiful acorns in the house. I wanted to get them shelled ground and processed into flour more than I can tell you. Time just wasn't available though so they were all returned to the forest for the animals. But, I have to wonder, what quality of oil would those nuts have produced?

All nuts and seeds have oil. I THINK (this is a question for you scientific types) it's needed as food for the embryonic stages of growth?

[castanea]

Nov 2, 2010 20:49:16 GMT -5 spacecase0 said:

Nov 2, 2010 20:15:40 GMT -5 castanea said:

For those in more northern climates, don't forget sea buckthorn oil:

www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/oilprofile/sea_buckthorn.php

I had no idea it made oil,
thank you

Both the seeds and the fruit which is unusual

[castanea]

Atash, what grape varieties do you grow?

[castanea]

Nov 3, 2010 7:07:00 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

Nov 2, 2010 15:21:17 GMT -5 atash said:

MNJRutherford, good thinking on reusing spent frying oil. If I ever end up pressing my own oil, I am going to be stingy with it.

This tickles me because we have been living by the philosophy that "If it comes onto the property it stays on the property!" Meaning that we make permanent use of whatever we attain.

I want to grow olives. I think they are more cold hardy than some might think since they grow beautifully in the northern climes of Spain and Italy which are, globally speaking, at the same latitudes as much of the US. Methinks I'm going to be taking a closer look at the globe later today. Regardless, I hear a whole lot of stuff about why I shouldn't be trying to grow them here, but no one says anything about ever trying so how would anyone know?

I would really like to know if they can be grown in places like the Ozarks and Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. If I can ever get my hands on some wood or some seed, You better believe I'll be verifying whether or not they can be grown here in North Carolina. Olive oil has been used for everything from lamp oil, to soap, to pharmaceuticals, to frying eggs (my personal favorite).

I may be mistaken, but I do believe that pretty much any food grade fat can be used exactly the same with equal efficacy but slightly different qualities. Variety making the "spice of life" so to speak. Read, "I LOVE LARD!" But, not in biscuits.

That's my suspicion also with respect to hardiness. Attempts to grow olives in Texas and Oklahoma have been limited to a very few more common varieties. Someone needs to get seed from hardier European varieties and plant hundreds of them.

[orflo]

Young olive trees are somewhat frost tender, but these are easily kept in a pot, and can be placed inside during really cold periods. Generally olive trees stand temperatures as low as -15°C , that's just about 5°Fahrenheit. I have one in a pot outside, and I left it outside during last winter, when it was just about that cold. The tree did lose some leaves, but it resprouted quickly during spring. It must be about 7 years old.
Don't underestimate the water need of an olive tree, it uses up lots of water, roots go down as deep as 5-6 metres to find some water. Even in Spain, the better olive orchards are to be found in areas where drought isn't that present. When you try to grow them in a pot, make sure you'll give them plenty of water during summer, they can remain drier during winter (they also hate wet feet, so be careful with that).
It can ripen off olives over here, 51° north, but it needs a good summer to do so. This young tree only gives me a few olives, it's more 'just for fun'. Up to my knowledge, the most northern commercial olives plantations are to be found in the Rhone valley, France, where summers are hot enough to make sure the olives ripen completely.

[mnjrutherford]

Well, that confirms my suspicions then. I'm also thinking that with climate change in process, the sooner olives are started in areas that previously would not support them, the sooner olives will be available. I think they are a pretty important crop for oil, food, and timber?

Regardless, I think that areas that were previously marginal for "heat loving" crops, should start trialing said crops just in case. That way, if they do well, you are ahead of the game especially if the cold crops can't take the changes and die. The impact on food production will be less painful.

Our property here would probably be pretty good for olives. Sandy loam with excellent drainage. We have a sort of fold across the property that becomes a river in very heavy rains, but by planting a couple more weeping willows in the wettest areas, close to where it empties into the creek bed, some of the heaviest run off at the lower end of the property can be eliminated. Besides, this would be about 100' to 150' from where I would plant olives.

[atash]

I agree the olive would make a wonderful oil crop.

The olive must experience vernalization to produce fruit; however, it will freeze from extreme cold. Although the olive is the most cold-hardy of the subtropical fruit trees, it will sustain damage to leaves and small stems at 17 degrees F and more severe damage at 12 degrees F. The tree can be killed to the ground with temperatures below 10 degrees F. Mature trees can regrow from underground parts following a severe freeze.

I think she could grow one for a while, but sooner or later a winter would hit that would kill the olive, even a relatively hardy one like the Arbequina (that's the same one sold here). They need climates that are more stable (and preferably slightly more equable) than yours MNJRutherford. I dunno if it makes a difference--probably not if they're growing them in Texas, but they prefer a Mediterranean rainfall pattern too--rain in late fall, early winter, dryish the rest of the year.

Cold-pressed extra-virgin olive oil is of course exquisite, and relatively easy to extract oil from. And the trees are handsome.

I don't think olives are the most cold-hardy subtropical fruit tree contrary to the article; I think that honor should probably go to the Feijoa. I have one in my own back-yard; they are astonishingly cold-hardy compared to their native provinence. On the rare occasions one ever freezes back here they tend to bounce right back which is very unusual for the family (Myrtaceae). And they are as handsome as an olive tree, and they have big pink flowers (with edible sweet petals) too. Probably the best-tasting Guava; they have a sweet and sour flavor, almost pineapple like, with a smell like sweet peas. Not as pitchy as most Guavas.

Pomegranates and Figs are pretty coldhardy too, but I don't know if those are considered "subtropical".

[mnjrutherford]

Figs and pomegranates do very well here. In fact, we need to get a couple more figs and pomegranates are on the "want" list. Feijoa sounds like it oughta be on the want list as well. When it comes time, perhaps some seed can come my way?

As for olives, I think our climate is marginal but the soil is excellent. The climate is in a state of flux and looking at historical numbers, it is indeed becoming more Mediterranean and it is going in that direction faster in the past 10 years than in the previous 50.

I just need some wood (that I won't kill like all the wood I killed last year trying to learn how to grow from wood ) or some seed. I've killed quite a bit of seed this past year, but thanks to those whose who have kindly entrusted me with seed, I'm doing much better now.

[blueadzuki]

Speaking of Oil producing subtropicals, How about Camellia oleifera the Tea oil camellia? Its seeds can be pressed to make Tea oil (as can those of the true tea C. sinensis) and assuming what i have read is correct, it can take temperatures down to 10F without significant damage. I am quite fond of tea oil especially for frying and sitr-frying (it has a very high smoke point) so it certianly would be on my list of oil producers to grow.

[atash]

MJNRutherford, can't help with olive because I don't have one because my climate is very marginal for one and I'd rather not even try it. One thing I have found is that even when something with tropical or subtropical affinities will survive here, it is often hard to get the fruit to ripen. summers not hot enough. That said, I do have a Taichang citrus tree. But I've never heard of anybody getting Citrus to ripen here.

I'll look around at other stuff you might be interested in though.

Interesting suggestion, BlueAdzuki. I am familiar with the Oil Camellia as partial ancestor of some coldhardy Camellia hybrids. It is indeed very coldhardy for a Camellia. It and its hybrids have survived in climates normally too cold for other types.

I have two specimens of Camellia sinensis in my yard, one a small-leaved Japanese variety, the other a big-leaved (closer to the ancestral variety) type from Sochi Russia which is the only part of Russia where they grow tea.

I should check for seeds. This is probably about the time of year they ripen. It's also when they bloom. Mine are still blooming. Flowers not much to look at, being white and having the texture of tissue paper. Also the plant does not hold them out at optimal angles to be particularly conspicuous.

Atash, what grape varieties do you grow?

I just have multiple specimens of a single variety, Lynden Blue. I think it's a Labrusca type, early-ripening and dwarf.

Actually I have one other grape but it's a late-ripener that is probably not the best choice for my climate. I do not have early freezes, but relatively cool summers. Grapes tend to ripen late here, typically October or even November.

If I had time, which I don't, I would like to experiment with various species and see which ones would perform best in terms of ripening and disease-resistance.

[mjc]

Atash, if your C. sinensis does have seeds, especially, the 'Sochi' one, I'd be interested in some.

[synergy]

In the Pacific coast if Canada, Gulf Islands, there are producing olive orchards. The olive varieties they grow and offer are Frantoio, Leccino, Maurino. They also note: though the Frantoio is self-pollinating, you will achieve the best fruiting results if you also choose another variety to keep the Frantoio company.
We are a zone 7 here and these growing sites are considered sub Mediteranean.

Um, I think some people will try to grow anything because they also produce maple and birch syrup here .

Some cold tolerance info:
www.cloudforest.com/northwest/forum/20098270.html

Olive harvest news in Oregon:
www.oregonolives.com/

[atash]

The agriculture department is now admitting for the THIRD time that it overestimated production, as estimates have been revised downward yet again:

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/249211fc-ec1d-11df-9e11-00144feab49a.html#axzz14u6mdAoN

Financial Times does not like to be quoted and I don't want to have to try to argue "fair use" if dragged into court so try following the link.

The gist is that grain supplies are lower than expected and have been revised down again, soy sales to China are depleting domestic supplies, and cotton is at the lowest level since 1925. Not sure what happened in 1925 but we had a lot fewer people then.

Rising prices will work their way up the food chain. For example livestock are fed mostly grains and soy; as the price of animal food rises, so does the price of animal products.

I'll probably grow some millet next year to feed my chickies. Millet is not a complete protein so I will need something else to balance the protein. I'll have some soy but not sure I'll have equipment to crack it for them. Maybe I could spare a bit of quinoa or even Kañiwa (Chenopodium pallidicaule), both of which I intend for human food but the chickies have to eat something and maybe I can just make sure there's enough for all of us. Might feed them some Tyfon greens to on the theory that it's cheap and easy to produce in quantity.

I only have a few chickies. They're essentially egg-laying pets. People with significant amounts of livestock might want to plan accordingly.

All the grains I produce will be whole-grain as I do not have the equipment to extract white flour out of them nor the heart to waste any nutrients. Will probably therefor end up buying bread flour, whose price is rising. There's been a discussion on my website regarding how to deal with phytic acid--an anti-nutrient in whole grains. Soak 'em, sprout 'em, ferment them, or yeast-leaven 'em.

[ozarklady]

You mention feeding your chickens.
The main reason for cracking grains before feeding them to birds is so that the chicken does not overeat and then the grains swell inside the bird when it gets water.

Cracking grains helps alot in this regard. But, you can also, soak the grains, like soy, and when it has soaked up all the water that it will, then it is safe, or you can even ferment them... soy sauce anyone? Don't forget sprouts, you can take many grains, and wet them then lay them on a damp tray, and simply wait for sprouts to form and then feed these to your chickens. Chickens also love to go through your kitchen wastes, it is hard to keep them out of compost, so why not let them help you compost?

Caution: I had my goats get into some new potatoes, that were drying, and one bit some of one. Within 24 hours she was sick, a trip to the vet proved she had pneumonia, apparently there is a type that animals get from foods, or the air around the foods? I have also heard that pigs will not breed if fed potato skins, the old farmers, never gave those to animals at all.

Don't forget, if you feed your animals well, and some are for household food, then you get fats from them. I make butter, which can be rendered into glee for cooking, how bout chicken fat, or duck or goose fat? There are many other types of fats. And if you look up lard, it is now proven to be a "health food". Oils were the choice for industry, not for the cottage! You may express some oil, but in the long haul, I think animal fats will be the easiest way to get some fat into your cooking.

[spacecase0]

atash, you have Chenopodium pallidicaule seeds, where did you get them ?