|
|
Post by garnetmoth on Nov 16, 2010 8:25:29 GMT -5
Ok here are some more fun questions/statements for you:
we have gone ahead and bought some staples in larger than usual quantity, partially as a hedge, partially because I am curious how cheaply I can make bread (that is now around $2-3 a loaf in the store!)
we are also getting a refi into these lower interest rates, and going to pile on the house as quickly as possible. Since a lot of people live in cities- what is your vision of how property rights may end up? I dont feel many "city folk" are necessarily organized and talented enough to go on a massive peri-urban building spree- Id hope live and let live would be the norm in cities. Ive even read about squatters keeping up foreclosed homes....
|
|
|
|
Post by mnjrutherford on Nov 16, 2010 12:43:21 GMT -5
Bread is very cheap and far more tasty when fresh. Play with using more unleavened bread as well as yeasted breads. I make both on a weekly basis. In the yeasted category I usually make a ciabatta style sourdough. That's our everyday bread. I also make a loaf style sandwich bread that has eggs, butter, and milk. I can make the same dough and add a little extra sugar then turn it into cinnamon buns or cinnamon raisin bread. I also make semmel rolls and English muffins when the mood strikes as well as Spanish style ensaimada. I'm hoping to add pannetone to the repertoire this Christmas. We actually live pretty high on the hog food wise, regardless of our relatively modest income.
I'd be happy to provide some recipes, send some starter, or even give advice as desired. I HIGHLY recommend a Kitchen Aide stand mixer. I have the professional model with a 6 qt bowl. If you intend to have children within the coming 5 years, I recommend getting this model. If not, get the smaller, more available 5 qt model that sells for under $250. It's wise to spend more money to acquire an excellent tool than to purchase a cheap tool that doesn't do an adequate job and requires replacement.
As for urban living... well... My thought is that ones degree of safety is equivalent to ones visibility. If you can't be seen, and I mean that in the most literal sense, you eliminate a portion of the "attacks" that can be sent against you. Not all attacks, only a portion.
On the other hand, you can't exactly just go =POOF= and disappear, right? Wrong. You most certainly can. Think of Elisabeth Fritzl. She completely disappeared for 24 years. Not in a good way either. However, there are other people who "dance" in and out of our scope of visibility and we never know because we are not party to their immediate circumstances. On the other hand, if you are visible, if people are accustomed to seeing you, hearing you, even here in VR land, then you will be "missed" if you simply stop interaction.
This is a very complicated issue really. Lots of things could be properly said, but not safely. I say keep working diligently toward your goals and never cease, not for a moment, in educating yourself in how to live well without corporate interaction of any sort.
Not everyone can do this. Not everyone would want to do this. You must make this decision for yourself then go for what ever makes you happiest.
|
|
|
|
Post by atash on Nov 16, 2010 14:03:31 GMT -5
Garnetmoth, not sure I understand your question so bear with me. Property rights overall are eroding. There was for example during the building bubble a series of land-grabs by city councils by abuse of "eminent domain". They seized private property to build shopping malls that, ironically, are now empty and the incentives the town councils used to lure the prospective tenants have bankrupted some of those jurisdictions. The Supreme Court ruled that these abuses were legal, which is not surprising given the makeup of the Supreme Court.
Another common abuse is for municipalities to seize property for non-payment of taxes that are too high compared to the value of the crashed real estate. This has happened repeatedly in the country's history though; it is nothing new. During the Great Depression, King County seized ONE THIRD of the land in Seattle. Another huge land grab happened after WW2 as a result of rent controls that were imposed during the war; cost of maintenance was rising but landlords were not allowed to raise rents. This happened with both residential properties and commercial properties, and it continues to this day.
Your risk is solely from the government (and government-connected entities), not from private citizens aside from predatory lawsuits, which require government collusion. Rioters don't move in. Squatters mostly only go after easy targets. If you leave a property abandoned, OK, don't be surprised if someone moves in...that has LONG been a risk in many parts of the world.
One of my wife's colleagues was surprised when her father died and she inherited his condo apartment, that she was totally unable to evict a squatter. The jaw-droppingly corrupt NYC courts and bureaucracies not only would not cooperate, but were clearly and firmly on the side of the squatter. The next-of-kin had to buy her out.
Moveable property is another matter. Cars go fast, and so do loose items in your yard. However private looters tend to go after easy and highly visible targets, which gets back to what MNJRutherford said. If you own a store in a popular shopping mall, beware.
During one of the big Seattle riots (coverage of which was mostly spiked by the national media), police totally surrounded Westlake Center. They also aggressively defended Starbucks, Niketown, and other big corporate properties. On the other hand they ordered small business owners to leave their shops to the rioters, and refused to defend those. Several family businesses went out of business as a result of losses including and especially lost business. Check your insurance policy but it probably does not cover "insurrection".
For what it's worth, and a lot of folks do not understand this: people are born, live their whole lives, and die of old age in chronic war-zones like Beirut. There are risks in urban areas, and there are also risks in rural areas, ESPECIALLY DEEP-RURAL NON-AGRARIAN areas. People move to mountainous and desert terrain for the scenery and the "delightful resort lifestyle" with no clue as to how they would survive if the vacation home owners suddenly stop showing up for the summer/winter.
Also, during a crisis, generally STAY PUT AND HUNKER DOWN. People die trying to establish "normalcy" in spite of what their senses are telling them about the danger of a situation. If you absolutely must flee because the tornado or wildfire is bearing down on you then you plan your escape route according to the situation at hand NOT ACCORDING TO HABIT. In the Oakland fires people died in their cars getting trapped in bottlenecks when they could have walked to safety. During 911, people in the twin towers kept asking each other if they should do something about that loud noise and sudden tremendous vibration (like what else could it have been other than a life-threatening risk to the structural integrity of the building?!). Eyewitnesses say there were people going around telling people to stay put until further notice...that never came!
During the Beverly Hills nightclub fire--that spread quite slowly and killed its victims from total inaction (the bodies were found seated around tables), hundreds of employees were paralyzed waiting for orders from their bosses. One buss-boy thought "OK, I'm going to get fired for this..." and herded customers out. Even the one hero thought maybe he was doing something "wrong"!
When I have time I'll have to tell the story of "Paul Wolfowitz and the alley-cat".
|
|
|
|
Post by spacecase0 on Nov 16, 2010 14:23:38 GMT -5
During the Beverly Hills nightclub fire--that spread quite slowly and killed its victims from total inaction I keep trying to get more ready from what is coming our way, and the more I see, the more I see that I am so totally over prepared, inaction is something I am not at risk of at all. atash, thank you for useful history |
|
|
|
Post by seedywen on Nov 16, 2010 17:54:52 GMT -5
Whoo, them ponies!
Went 'back to the land' in 1970...for quite a number of reasons, mentioned on this thread. And never left.
However there are a number of alarmist, over-the-top views on this thread, that I'd be willing debate. However too busy, running a small homestead, 'just in case, of a worse case scenario'.
However as someone who went back to the bare basics for a number of years, in the 1970's, there isn't a day go by, I'm not thankful for hot running water, reliable electricity etc. Plus other modernities like the Internet. Continue to work diligently on networks of community sustainable infrastructure, however, can't completely buy into the degree of paranoi, expressed on this thread.
Ehgad! I've turned into my grandmother.
|
|
|
|
Post by Alan on Nov 16, 2010 18:26:17 GMT -5
Whoo, them ponies! Went 'back to the land' in 1970...for quite a number of reasons, mentioned on this thread. And never left. However there are a number of alarmist, over-the-top views on this thread, that I'd be willing debate. However too busy, running a small homestead, 'just in case, of a worse case scenario'. However as someone who went back to the bare basics for a number of years, in the 1970's, there isn't a day go by, I'm not thankful for hot running water, reliable electricity etc. Plus other modernities like the Internet. Continue to work diligently on networks of community sustainable infrastructure, however, can't completely buy into the degree of paranoi, expressed on this thread. Ehgad! I've turned into my grandmother. And that's ok too, it could be we are all wrong, but it never hurts to talk about what's going on and why we do what we do just in case, best case scenario we are all wrong, worst case is none of us has yet approached the depth of whats going on. |
|
|
|
Post by mnjrutherford on Nov 16, 2010 20:25:45 GMT -5
Continue to work diligently on networks of community sustainable infrastructure, however, can't completely buy into the degree of paranoi, expressed on this thread. Ehgad! I've turned into my grandmother. LOL Thank goodness you can stay level headed about it! Folks like you keep the nut cases like me from REALLY going off the deep end!  |
|
|
|
Post by atash on Nov 16, 2010 20:29:36 GMT -5
I wonder if you are responding to my mention of issues like EMP attacks. Those were purely theoretical and had to do with seriousness versus likelihood. I did not intend to alarm you. Maybe to get the conversation back on track it's worth mentioning that the point is more along the lines of creating a relatively sustainable, relatively food-secure situation, and then you don't have to worry or be alarmed. Worry does not solve problems; action does. Does that make more sense?  |
|
|
|
Post by darrellg on Nov 17, 2010 3:00:53 GMT -5
On the subject of oils, I don't think anybody mentioned peanut oil. They can be grown in many of the southern states in the USA. Spanish type peanuts are said to contain more oil.
Chia seed are supposed to contain quite alot of linoleic and linolenic oil.
Don't forget butter made from goat milk.
Concerning Moringa, the most recent leaves are very tasty at least on the one I've grown in a container for the last 3 years. One might be able to bury the trunk or the largest branches over winter and root them in Spring. The leaves die at the least frost. My Moringa has never once flowered.
|
|
|
|
Post by mnjrutherford on Nov 17, 2010 7:21:52 GMT -5
Chia is SO small and you get such a tiny amount compared to the room it requires to produce, it isn't very enticing.
Peanuts are more interesting in our area. We have been selecting for pea size and have a fairly large average pea in this crop. Now we are going to select for both size and number of peas per pod. This year's crop is quite nice. We won't be making oil, but butter, confections, and roasting.
|
|
|
|
Post by garnetmoth on Nov 17, 2010 10:15:34 GMT -5
I appreciate your input Atash- we had a local strip mall want to expand, got houses and businesses by eminent domain, bulldozed, and now its a grass field.... I would like to get as many systems in place as can make us less dependent on outside inputs. Its a hedge against inflation and other societal disruptions. Jo- I got a bread machine for $3 at a yard sale, and a pasta roller at Goodwill for $6- they are both quite awesome. I used a Kitchen Aid when I took cooking classes, but dont do a lot of mixing here at home. (they are nice tho!) I cant remember where I read it but someone posted about the Full Belly Project www.thefullbellyproject.org They make a silicone mold that uses cement and a few metal parts and a few welds to make an adjustable-gap peanut sheller. |
|
|
|
Post by atash on Nov 17, 2010 12:32:51 GMT -5
Garnetmoth, under the circumstances you are justifiably wary.
I would grow peanuts if I could. I'm pretty far north (47.5 degrees N) so I would be pushing my luck. I know that pre-globalized monoculture there were varieties grown as far north as southern Ontario but when I tried to track them down I could not find any recent references to them.
I might try some Chia. We have a long growing season, as long as crops don't need really warm temps. I might try a few different species. One of them (not the most common Chia, Salvia hispanica but another species) has BLUE flowers, which I seem to have an attraction to.
Darrell, the variety of Moringa that blooms precociously is "PKM1". I'm wondering if I have it already as mine tried to bloom. Haven't looked at it lately and as it is November it has a snowflake's chance in Hades to make it. Might take a look later in the day. PKM1 also has less fibrous pods and non-bitter seeds.
|
|
|
|
Post by mjc on Nov 17, 2010 13:29:17 GMT -5
Garnetmoth, under the circumstances you are justifiably wary. I would grow peanuts if I could. I'm pretty far north (47.5 degrees N) so I would be pushing my luck. I know that pre-globalized monoculture there were varieties grown as far north as southern Ontario but when I tried to track them down I could not find any recent references to them. I'm in the same boat, as far as peanuts go...I found references to them being grown in this county, commercially in the late 1800s through about 1930, but I can't find any specific varieties. There are also references to cotton and sugar (maybe beets, but possibly cane) being grown here too. Broomcorn and syrup sorghum were both regularly grown, along with a full range of small grains (oats, barley, wheat, rye and possibly upland rice). Some of the Tennessee varieties of peanuts are short season...so are the ones that Stuart (showmedseeds) offered...Peanut--Sweet Black, so they may do well for you. I didn't have good luck with them this year, as I only had one plant survive (various depredations...but mainly the rat). My guess, is the ones that were grown here were similar to these. |
|
|
|
Post by Alan on Nov 18, 2010 1:08:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by atash on Nov 18, 2010 20:21:53 GMT -5
Alan, ask yourself how the Chinese raising interest rates--which they have NOT done but only threatened to do--creates more wheat, corn, and soy. It doesn't. They are counting on the threat to raise interest rates to scare speculators into selling long commodity contracts to create a self-fulfilling prophesy that raising interest rates will trigger the mother-of-all-recessions in China, the assumption being that commodity prices "should" fall when an economy contracts. This isn't fundamentally true: people still want to eat even in a recession. It's more of a self-fulfilling prophesy, but it depends on the existence of a food surplus in excess of demand to self-fulfill. Right now food supplies are already tight. More likely what will happen is that even if there were a contraction in lending, one of its side-effects would be to wipe out MORE production of food as some heavily-indebted producers go insolvent. My guess is that if commodities prices fall significantly, it will shake out some weak hands but the trend will remain intact and the correction will not last long. I don't play commodities markets precisely because I have no defense against these games. I remain bullish on food prices over the long run. |
|
