flame weeder

[sandbar]

I bought a cheapo at Harbor Freight:

www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-with-push-button-igniter-91037.html

I don't really have anything to add other than a chime in with a few comments:

- Get a hose extension. Six foot hose means you handle the tank a LOT.
- Put the tank in/on something with wheels.
- They do use a bit of propane.
- Works best in hard to weed areas (sidewalk cracks) and on seedlings.
- They sound very cool when fired up in "rocket mode" !!

[PatrickW]

That's a good point with the hose. In Europe all the propane fittings are different, so I pretty much had to put on my own hose and replace everything except the burner itself. I use a 30ft hose, and it's okay. Next time I buy a new one I might get something even a little longer, maybe 40ft. 6ft is way too short. With a longer hose you do have to watch out you don't burn it, and it does get tangled more easily. At least around here they sell a special orange colored burn resistant hose which would be good to look out for. I'm not sure they sell this in the US.

And yes, every time I use it, it sounds like a rocket is launching from my garden. I always have the attention of all my fellow community gardeners.

[extremegardener]

I prefer the combination of the short hose and the little wheeled caddy. The caddy is one-handled and very maneuverable even in the rough terrain of my rock laden and sometimes narrow paths. You can hold the torch in one hand and roll the tank with the other easily to move along (don't flame while doing that, kids). I don't like a long hose because it requires extra management and vigilance, and there's already an awful lot of management and vigilance required to flame weed safely...

[steev]

It occurred to me that for gopher control with a flamer, a dose of sulfur down the hole first could be a good idea; much the same as a flare, but without the strontium for color, that being the toxic part organic-gardening-wise.

[sandbar]

Jan 3, 2011 19:56:40 GMT -5 steev said:

... a dose of sulfur down the hole first could be a good idea; ...

Very interesting ... what do you use for your sulphur source?

[sandbar]

Jan 3, 2011 6:14:26 GMT -5 PatrickW said:

At least around here they sell a special orange colored burn resistant hose which would be good to look out for. I'm not sure they sell this in the US.

When I bought my flame weeder from HF, I also bought this 15' extension:

www.harborfreight.com/15-ft-hose-extension-65404.html

It's orange, but I haven't tested it's fire durability ... yet.

[PatrickW]

Jan 3, 2011 8:37:04 GMT -5 extremegardener said:

I prefer the combination of the short hose and the little wheeled caddy. The caddy is one-handled and very maneuverable even in the rough terrain of my rock laden and sometimes narrow paths. You can hold the torch in one hand and roll the tank with the other easily to move along (don't flame while doing that, kids). I don't like a long hose because it requires extra management and vigilance, and there's already an awful lot of management and vigilance required to flame weed safely...

I agree with you, and everything you say is right, but I think there are two ways of thinking. First of all, I think you probably use a 10lb tank and a smaller burner. I couldn't see a 30lb tank in a backpack... I think a larger tank might be less maneuverable, might be apt to make the wheels of the dolly sink in the ground more and harder to get around corners.

Also, my garden isn't set up for this. One of the issues in my garden is compressing the dirt in the beds, and rolling a dolly over them isn't something I would want to do. Many of my paths are only wide enough to walk or roll a single wheeled wheelbarrow on.

My thinking is more I would prefer to have the tank as far away from me and the flame as possible, in case there's a leak or fire. It's also handy to have nothing but the burner in your hands, because you sometimes need to bend over and move things or pick them up. Being tethered to a 30lb tank with a 6ft hose would make this much harder. Having to move the dolly at the same time would make this more complicated.

It's also true I spend more time moving the hose around, and it tends to knock over small plants or plant markers like a garden hose would.

Since my hose is bright orange, I don't tend to accidentally flame it, but it does sometimes get dragged over hot gravel or rocks and melt a little. I have the same problem with the soles of my shoes, and sometimes have to pick out bits of gravel that have melted their way into the rubber...

In my garden, for example, I can usually flame about 350ft2 of mostly clear ground in less than 5 minutes. I think it would take 2-3 times as long if I had to stop and move a dolly every few seconds. I also get RSI like pains in my hands and arms from the burner sometimes, and I'm sure the added extra motions of moving the tank around would make this worse.

As much as anything, it probably depends on how big a tank and burner you have, as well as personal preference.

Also, one thing I forgot to say about melting snow. Propane really only works if it's kept above freezing, otherwise it freezes up too quickly. If you use it to melt snow, you also have to think about how you are going to keep the tank warm at the same time. It's really more trouble than it's worth.

[extremegardener]

Jan 4, 2011 8:03:23 GMT -5 PatrickW said:

I agree with you, and everything you say is right, but I think there are two ways of thinking.

Or more... as many views and approaches as there are different gardens and gardeners. That's what I love about this forum, and I really enjoy hearing about how other gardeners use the same tools.

First of all, I think you probably use a 10lb tank and a smaller burner. I couldn't see a 30lb tank in a backpack...

Yeah, the backpack takes a smaller tank. I did a stint as a field hand at a ginseng farm one summer and used a backpack with a smaller tank and trigger, and the backpack was good for that application - a lot of here and there weeding and a lot of distance to cover between flame targets.
For myself now and my own gardens, I use a 30# tank on a dolly.

I think a larger tank might be less maneuverable, might be apt to make the wheels of the dolly sink in the ground more and harder to get around corners.

Also, my garden isn't set up for this. One of the issues in my garden is compressing the dirt in the beds, and rolling a dolly over them isn't something I would want to do. Many of my paths are only wide enough to walk or roll a single wheeled wheelbarrow on.

Yup, it definitely depends upon how your garden is set up and how big. It sounds like you can probably set your tank in one or two places and with a long hose, reach everything you need to flame. I have to cover a lot of ground, so there's no avoiding moving the tank around a lot, plus I've got trellises and other support devices all over the place. A lot of my paths are really narrow also, too narrow for the leg rests of my single wheeled wheel barrow. The footprint of the dolly is only slightly bigger than the propane tank, and it's surprising how easy it is to move around, even in the narrowest path.

As for compressing the soil, my beds and paths are all permanent just for that reason, and the dolly with the tank stays on the paths. The beds are NEVER walked on or run over with machinery, only tilled by hand.

My thinking is more I would prefer to have the tank as far away from me and the flame as possible, in case there's a leak or fire. It's also handy to have nothing but the burner in your hands, because you sometimes need to bend over and move things or pick them up. Being tethered to a 30lb tank with a 6ft hose would make this much harder. Having to move the dolly at the same time would make this more complicated.

I never flame while rolling the dolly (very dangerous). The dolly is parked while actually flaming, so both hands are available to manage the torch and move stuff out of the way.
I like to stay close to the tank so that I can smell it, and be constantly monitoring it and reach the main valve on the tank quickly if need be. I can understand, though, preferring to keep a distance.

It's also true I spend more time moving the hose around, and it tends to knock over small plants or plant markers like a garden hose would.

Since my hose is bright orange, I don't tend to accidentally flame it, but it does sometimes get dragged over hot gravel or rocks and melt a little. I have the same problem with the soles of my shoes, and sometimes have to pick out bits of gravel that have melted their way into the rubber...

In my garden, for example, I can usually flame about 350ft2 of mostly clear ground in less than 5 minutes. I think it would take 2-3 times as long if I had to stop and move a dolly every few seconds. I also get RSI like pains in my hands and arms from the burner sometimes, and I'm sure the added extra motions of moving the tank around would make this worse.

I usually can access a few minutes worth of flaming work from one parking spot, even with the short hose. I know what you mean about the arm and hand pain (wish they would put an ergonomic bend in the torch). Moving the dolly gives me a change of position that relieves some of the arm and hand stress.

As much as anything, it probably depends on how big a tank and burner you have, as well as personal preference.

Also, one thing I forgot to say about melting snow. Propane really only works if it's kept above freezing, otherwise it freezes up too quickly. If you use it to melt snow, you also have to think about how you are going to keep the tank warm at the same time. It's really more trouble than it's worth.

Right on about the snow and ice. I spend a lot of time managing snow and ice in the winter, but never with propane. It's not an efficient use of fossil fuel, my opinion, though there probably are some winter emergency situations where it could be helpful, I suppose.

[steev]

Actually, I don't know whether I still have any left from when I last bought sulfur, so I may have to hunt. Either "flowers of sulfur" or chunk would do fine; it's just to burn to produce sulfur dioxide gas which I used to use to sulfur fruit for drying. I would think an ag supply store would have some, but I may have to pay the higher price of a drugstore. For all I know, Homeland Insecurity may have put sulfur on the proscribed list since it's a component of black powder which could be used to load a muzzle-loader! Whatever happened to the home of the brave?

[sandbar]

Thanks, Steev!

[mnjrutherford]

Yesterday we got the $30 version from Harbor Freight. We decided against the extension hose ($15) at this time and we will use either one of the dollies we already have or a wheelbarrow for transportation. I was thinking a little red wagon would also be a good option, but we don't have one any longer.

[PatrickW]

Jan 5, 2011 11:22:10 GMT -5 mnjrutherford said:

Yesterday we got the $30 version from Harbor Freight. We decided against the extension hose ($15) at this time and we will use either one of the dollies we already have or a wheelbarrow for transportation. I was thinking a little red wagon would also be a good option, but we don't have one any longer.

Sounds like a great place to start Jo!

[mnjrutherford]

Jan 6, 2011 11:28:43 GMT -5 PatrickW said:

Sounds like a great place to start Jo!

Cheap to! So, no pain if it doesn't work as we need it to. Far better, to our way of thinking, than a chemical option.