A "twist" on the Three Sis??

[lmonty]

Planning a small area with the traditional 3 Sisters set up- corn for the livestock, dried pole beans going up them, and a pumpkin or large winter squash(s) underneath.

But I was thinking about a "rotation" for that area. and breaking it into three/four areas on several hundred square feet each. Guessing a grain for us like wheat (I am partial to white hard wheat but haven't grown it) or hullless oats, what I dont keep for house flour can feed the critters, straw for bedding too.

But the third area is the one I'm really wondering about. I love the productivity of the 3 sisters interplanting. So, I was thinking about a possible twist on it.

How does sunflowers for seed, white or sweet lupine as undersown legume, and a small fruited winter squash to wander up the sunflowers sound?

The possibility for the fourth area is i break it up that way is a root crop. Mangels or beets are good for the ruminants and people. Haven't had much luck with them in the past here though so its really iffy if i can get much production, not sure how much of it is the ground or the grower! LOL it will be a learning experience either way. Carrots are also a possibility.

The sweet lupine really fascinates me due to the protein level. I am not a soy fan, due to personal problems digesting it and concerns about feeding continuous levels of the phytohormones to breeding stock. I don't know if the lupine has similar plant estrogens which I would have to investigate, once i figure out how. If the lupine isnt good for this or I cant find sweet white lupine seed to trial it this year, maybe a runner bean or largish bush soup type pea?

Harvesting preference: for the experimental interplanting I would be letting the legume dry down and pulling/cutting bushes and drying the whole thing, then feeding the entire dried plant with the attached seed if I can find a variety that will not split and drop seed too easily. That way the legume bushes are part of the feed value of the crop. Any suggestions on a good legume variety for a project like this?

For the traditional 3 Sisters, I would hope to also chose a pole bean that doesn't shatter and drop seed easily (McCaslan Pole? I have a few packs of that already) as i would like to cut the whole corn stalk with attached bean vine, stack, dry then string wrap them, keep under cover and then feed the stacks or portions through the winter. Compost the squash vines and then dry cool store the squash. Machete to serve.

Appreciate your thoughts, experience or ideas....

I'm on the side of a mountain, small north facing rocky field, soil is a bit acid when I tested it when we moved here, and area was once a mennonite subsistence garden decades ago but has been poor pasture since that time. Will be adding composted manure. In July and August we can go almost 2 months without rain, and it might be possible to set up some irrigation but I'd try to avoid that this year so hoping to use varieties that will work without too much coddling.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Turnips are often easier to pick than carrots especially in a rocky field.

Around here we often feed silage... That is corn stalks that are harvested green, chopped, and stored wet like cole-slaw. I imagine you could make silage out of legumes.

I don't know any local farmer that feeds whole legume seeds to stock animals. Whole legume seeds around here are typically only fed to birds, not to anything that can break a tooth on a hard seed. Lots of soybean meal is fed to toothed animals, but only after grinding to flour.

[nuts]

"Harvesting preference: for the experimental interplanting I would be letting the legume dry down and pulling/cutting bushes and drying the whole thing, then feeding the entire dried plant with the attached seed if I can find a variety that will not split and drop seed too easily. That way the legume bushes are part of the feed value of the crop. Any suggestions on a good legume variety for a project like this?"

I think you should consider vetch(vicia sativa),a legume that is excellent animal food.
You should plant it mixed with a cereal like oats or rye(it appreciate company of a cereal as support).You can plant it at autumn or early spring.
Harvest it as hay,after flowering but well before grain start to become mature.This way,the whole plants,as well the vetch as the cereal,are very nutritive.You'll see, animals love this stuff!
If you wait till the grain is mature,the nutrition is concentrated in the grain and the rest of the plant become straw,without very much nutritive value.Also,if you have ripened grain in the hey,mice will go in the hey to eat the grain.

Turnips could be planted after the vetch(june/july),a very good crop for autumn/winter.

[lmonty]

thanks for all the ideas. love the ideas of the turnips after grain/vetch, hadn't realized I'd have time for a second crop in there. that's wonderful.

i do like the vetch concept, but admit to a bit of a preference for choices that can double as people food too. cowpeas might fit the bill around the bed borders at least. i do have vetch in my little hayfield. i think its hairy vetch since it has fuzz.

ripened grain in hay/straw is a goal for my nongrass roughage. it really increases the nutrient content. the cats do a good job keeping the vermin down so far. so do the free range chickens and guineas, probably a better job! they consider them lunch. After seeing a rooster eat a mouse, I came to believe they just might be related to dinosaurs after all! It was like a miniature Jurassic Park out-take!

but you're right, infestation is something to watch for, and that I will have to keep in mind. I like diversity as well as the next guy but if the wild things are expecting free lunch all the time, they can darn well pay some rent...

anybody sell sweet lupine seed, or know where i can find some?? even if i don't get ambitious enough to trial something like this, i would like to grow some out and see what its like and how the critters like it, start evaluating if it meets our needs and how it likes it here. I tried googling it but the only English language source I found labeled it UK only.

[blueadzuki]

Jan 21, 2011 0:20:29 GMT -5 lmonty said:

i do like the vetch concept, but admit to a bit of a preference for choices that can double as people food too. cowpeas might fit the bill around the bed borders at least. i do have vetch in my little hayfield. i think its hairy vetch since it has fuzz.

Most likey, it is proably the commonest wild vetch in the US. were the flowders purple and in racemes (bunches) If yes it most likely was V. villosa l most of the other vetches that grow wild in the US are single flowered. One caveat if you go with vetch though, a lot of them (partiuclarly V.villosa) reseed prolifically, and can get out of control really easily if you let them, so if you go with them, you probably want to make sure you mow the plants before any of the pods mature.

If you need cowpeas, I have a half pound or so of little reddish pink ones from Thailand I could spare (leftover from a bag i picked up in Chinatown last Wed.)

[wildseed57]

One thing you might try is Roselle which is related to Okra and Kanef which is used for its high fiber content. Roselle is also related to hibiscus and is the plant that they make hibiscus tea from but it is used also for animal feed. The whole plant can be harvested and dried much like corn stocks. the Calyxes found on the small hairy pods are dried to make tea with also it is used to make a nice flavored jelly. the pods which usually pop open have small seeds much like okra and the seeds are used as a protein rich chicken feed in the MidEast along with the rest of the plant that can be used to feed goats and other animals. Kanef is used much the same way as Roselle, the leaves are a rich source of nutrients and have a sour flavor some plants can grow as tall as 15 feet in six months. you could inter plant with winter or Field peas, for a really different twist on squash you could inter plant Jelly melon also known as kiwano which is quite tasty and if you don't happen to like them they can be feed to your animals. They don't keep very long though, Lady Godiva pumpkin can be grown as both human food as the seeds are hulles and the rest of the pumpkin which is not any good for cooking can be fed to livestock raw or dried.
Sorghum and Sugar Beets can be used many ways and can be interplanted with such things as field peas, Buckwheat, or shelling beans. Some shelling beans and climbing peas are nearly as high in protein as soy beans.
George W.