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Post by DarJones on Feb 14, 2011 1:25:33 GMT -5
What Joseph said was fairly simple. The chromosomes in a cell must duplicate themselves before the cell divides. If you interrupt that process, then the chromosomes duplicate, but cell division never occurs. The result is a single cell with twice as many chromosomes as it started with.
The part about "spindle poison" refers to the structure that forms around the chromosomes to facilitate division. It looks like a spindle. If you disrupt the spindle, the division does not occur and the cell does not split.
DarJones
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Post by mnjrutherford on Feb 14, 2011 7:56:26 GMT -5
So... the division of the chromosomes occurs at the beginning of the cell division process? Therefore, division can be externally halted?
I need to consider the spindle thing. When you say "spindle" you mean a structure with 2 polar points versus a structure with multiple points resembling a multi sided geometric structure with equally spaced "points" that we might commonly refer to as a "star"?
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Post by spacecase0 on Feb 14, 2011 15:02:28 GMT -5
thank you Joseph and others for the replies,
I get it now,
and I am growing a spindle poison plant,
I am growing it for getting a look at DNA under my microscope,
I guess it would not be that hard to try,
it sounds fairly straight forward
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 15, 2011 11:50:36 GMT -5
Tom Wagner's diploid potatoes tend to be small--roughly golf-ball sized. In other words, the potatoes that are most sought after at market and fetch the highest prices. |
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Post by Leenstar on Feb 15, 2011 21:57:52 GMT -5
I have TPS that I got from some Yukon gold potatoes summer 2009.
I have been planning on growing it from seed. Any suggestino about when to start it from seed? I was going to follow the tomato 8 weeks before last frost guidelines. I grew them last year and got some small tubers but I ditched them since they were at a community plot and I didn't want to transfer anything into my new home garden.
As the seed is getting older now, I want to try to grow out more seed for this year and see what I get.
planting times relative to last frost would be a great help. For those of you experienced with growing from TPS, do you use a warming may or particular germination temperature?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 15, 2011 22:19:47 GMT -5
I have been planning on growing it from seed. Any suggestino about when to start it from seed? For those of you experienced with growing from TPS, do you use a warming may or particular germination temperature? I like 6-8 weeks before average last frost date for TPS (grown in the basement under florescent lights). The plants are still tiny in that long, but I'm not risking them already tuberizing. I don't use any type of warming tray. Germination takes around a week for me in a heated but somewhat cool basement. Due to the fragile delicate stems I plant in shallow soil and add soil to the pot as the plants grow. Also they grow stouter in brighter light so I put the plants very close to the light bulbs. Direct sunlight would be better, but I work with what I have. |
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Post by extremegardener on Feb 27, 2011 9:01:28 GMT -5
Any suggestino about when to start it from seed? For those of you experienced with growing from TPS, do you use a warming may or particular germination temperature? here's the bible for growing TPS tatermaterseeds.com/. TPS actually germinates better after it's a few years old |
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Post by Leenstar on Feb 28, 2011 10:20:14 GMT -5
Ugh! I am not reading my posts for errors. Thanks for all the help. I had looked that extremegardener's site before. Stupidly I had heard of tatermater but hadn't looked at it. The videos there are very helpful. Thanks! Interesting development with my rookie TPS experiments. I planted a bunch of TPS from fruits off a Yukon Gold at the same time. One little sprout has 4 leaves while all it brethren have only 2. I suppose it could be earlier than the rest and they are just tiny first true leaves but I thought it was interesting. I am hoping for a neat sport. Attachments:
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 28, 2011 13:57:57 GMT -5
Sometimes you just get seedlings with more than the normal number of cotyledons. Not sure if it signifies anything (other than the mutliple seedling leaes). I'd be curious to know if anyone knows differently. I hope it is a neat sport too! I am planting TPS for the second year and am very much a novice at this technique! It certainly appeals to me.
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Post by tatermater on Mar 1, 2011 2:48:53 GMT -5
Seedlings with three or four cotyledons is not all that rare. I have had those many times over my many years of growing potato seedlings. I call those with four cotyledons...quadcots....and most of the time they grow into normal potato plants. Be sure to mark the row where you plant this one out and report back to us.
A few occasions I have seen where the plant is more compact, but that is not a great thing to have with potato vines.
Multiple cotyledon number is a somatic embryogenesis thing. This is the alternative to genetic embryogenesis. Therefore it is a post genetic abnormality and has little if any meaning for future study. I have, however, found tomatoes that carry a higher expression of tricots and quadcots over a number of generations.
I remember bugging my Botany professor about quadcots back 45 years ago as to how monocots...corn, grasses, and dicots, potatoes, tomatoes....what happens when you have quadcots.....?
Tom Wagner
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Post by ottawagardener on Mar 1, 2011 7:43:00 GMT -5
I remember bugging my Botany professor about quadcots back 45 years ago as to how monocots...corn, grasses, and dicots, potatoes, tomatoes....what happens when you have quadcots.....? I can imagine the lock on his/her face. ;D Curiosity is one of your greatest assets and I thank you for it. Very nice explanation. I learned something interesting today! |
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Post by Leenstar on Mar 2, 2011 12:16:39 GMT -5
Not sure if I should start another thread with this one:
With tomatoes I have had success playing the stem horizontal in a furrow to encourage a bigger root base. The top would be gently curved up and soil placed over as much stem as possible.
Anyone do this with potato starts?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 2, 2011 12:33:08 GMT -5
With tomatoes I have had success playing the stem horizontal in a furrow to encourage a bigger root base. The top would be gently curved up and soil placed over as much stem as possible. Anyone do this with potato starts? Tomato seedlings quickly grow tall robust stems. Potato seedlings slowly grow short wimpy stems. The way that has worked easiest for me is to plant the potato seeds in a pot in 1/2" soil, and after the first true leaves form (in a month) to cover the stem with soil right up to the leaves. I usually lay the stems down before covering them. [Tom W. likes transplanting them at this point so that only the leaves are un-buried.] Then a few weeks later I add more soil and cover the stem and lower leaves. Repeat as necessary. After 8 weeks the potatoes are growing in about 2" of soil and are poking out of the soil about 2". Stolons are beginning to form so they need to get into the ground ASAP after 8 weeks. I bury most of the plant when transplanting. I keep thinking I aught to do a breeding program... Plant 1000 potato seeds, and only propagate the 20 plants that show the quickest early vigor. After 2 -10 generations of that I bet they'd grow a lot more like tomatoes. I've also thought I aught to pick out the largest seeds from each potato berry, and plant those, repeating year after year hoping to increase seed size and seedling vigor. I'm currently growing seedlings this way from one variety. In any case I plant extra seeds and pinch off the slow growing ones (clueless about what that is unintentionally doing to the rest of the genome.) But what the heck. I want potato seedlings that grow quickly and robustly. I don't want to have to pamper my seedlings. |
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Post by tatermater on Mar 3, 2011 1:53:19 GMT -5
Joseph,
In many ways I have been breeding towards TPS that emerged faster, grew strong seedlings, and out-competed siblings in a crowed cell transplant.
I have done this for so many years that some of my most promising lines are heading towards easier seedling of TPS, year after year.
The other thing that would help and I have done some of this....selecting potato clones that have larger seed. When the seed size is several times larger and has a fatter endosperm...the seed is actually heavier. I need to go back into my huge inventory and re-seed the large seed types. Yes, bigger stems and cotyledons help the vigor issue and the difference of spindly to sturdy is awe-inspiring. I should have kept working on those more often in hindsight.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 3, 2011 11:00:27 GMT -5
Tom, thanks for your work on these, and for sharing the seeds.
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