Lettuce - seed saving question

[aer]

Alright... I confess I've been a lurker here for a while, and I have enjoyed reading and learning from the members here. I just registered - I have a question that people on this board probably would be able to answer!

I overwintered 8 different varieties of lettuce this year, with varying degrees of success. I will be saving seed from several (Little Gem did particularly well for me under low hoops in zone 7a).

One of the varieties, "Dark Lollo Rossa" displayed much less uniformity than other varieties. The majority (probably about 150 of the 160 plants) were similar in appearance and other qualities: highly ruffled, dark pink to maroon with green at the very center, slow growing, a little dry, and mild in flavor. For the salad mix that we grow, it fills a good role for color interest and variable texture.

Some of the plants (less than 5%) were significantly different in depth of color, texture, leaf shape, size, and most importantly, taste - and I'm wondering what is going on genetically.

I know that lettuce is inbreeding and unlikely to cross, but what is going on with these plants? Are these plants (a) examples of the low incidence of crosses (b) examples of normal variation in a self pollinated variety, or perhaps rogue varieties that hadn't been excluded by the grower/source, or (c) off-type mutation?

Furthermore, I'd love to reproduce the good qualities in a couple of these off-type plants. Message board readers: If I save seed from them, will they be more likely to produce variable offspring, or are they likely to be like the parent? Or is the only way to know to grow out a lot of seed and select from subsequent generations?

Thanks so much for any advice you can offer.

[canadamike]

Some cross pollination might be the cause for your problems. »Lettuces are usually self pollinated by the time the flowers look open to us, but bees and other critters do exist, which might explain the incredible biodiversity in lettuces.

But I suspect another culprit might be in the play: nitrogen. Green plants that show some red tend to do so variably, and nitrogen is often the culprit. Take a red maple, the super reddish kind that is quite popular here in Ontario, give it plenty of ''lawn'' fertilizer and you'll have a beautiful tree without any red leaf.

Your problem might be twofold: even threefold: if some cross pollination occured, you will see it happen. If there is a nitrogen difference in the soil it can happen too, then there is also genetic variability. All 3 are common occurences in red lettuces, variability being the ''least suspect'' of the culprits in my mind, but I am sure someone else will not agree. I am just talking out of empiric experience.

I am not even sure of what I say here, in english. There is such a thing in veggies like ''environment induced genotype expression'' ( I sure hope I write in good technical english, cause I am translating from french here)
....mind you, it is another way of talking about variability...

Just go for the ones you think are winners. It should beat the crap out of Walmart lettuces anyway ;D

Michel

[aer]

C'est tres interresant!

What you wrote makes sense, and I think I understand what you mean about "environment induced genotype expression." That definitely explains some of the variation.

Also, because the plants had an occasional (and most likely uneven) feeding of fish emulsion, available nitrogen would have contributed to variation in color. That's a great tip about the color!

There are definitely a handful of plants that are quite different in leaf shape/texture and could be "winners." I am curious about the offspring of those crosses and whether they would be mostly the same as the parent... I'll look forward to seeing the result!

As for the "better than Walmart" bit: so true. I've been spoiled with homegrown produce; I haven't bought lettuce in the grocery for quite some time. The climate here makes it easy to have fresh greens year-round, with a little planning and effort. And I find that I get pickier about what I am willing to pay for: if I can grow it well, I don't usually buy it. ;D

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Mar 26, 2011 21:53:52 GMT -5 canadamike said:

I am not even sure of what I say here, in english. There is such a thing in veggies like ''environment induced genotype expression'' ( I sure hope I write in good technical english, cause I am translating from french here)

Michael your English is great. And if there is a talk-around once in a while that just adds joy at hearing a clever turn of phrase.

Phenotype = environment induced genotype expression: physical traits of the plant due to the interactions of the genes with the environment.

[robertb]

I can only suggest that you save seed from those plants and see what you end up with. There's no doubt that environmental factors do affect the expression of genes, but I wouldn't have thought that would be a factor in a single bed.