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Post by ottawagardener on May 10, 2011 7:57:16 GMT -5
The old garden at my place has been tilled frequently meaning that it is rock free and pretty much sand. As it is also the site of a small orchard and has been planted in annual vegetables for many years, I'm turning this into a forest garden. Hopefully the strong will survive the harsh conditions and disease pressure. I would like to cheaply improve the soil but it is a large area. I've thought of topdressing with as much sod cuttings, leaf litter (don't really like to harvest from the forest) and other organic matter that I can get on site. Also I'm seeding every inch. For me, it's important the soil be covered. I'll worry about prize winning plants later.
This garden is being dug out in a swale/berm pattern too as it is on a slight slope to try to hold moisture.
What else would you do?
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Post by mjc on May 10, 2011 8:52:06 GMT -5
A mixture of clover, hairy vetch and some sort of grass would be great for over seeding the area.
If you can get a hold of large quantities of chipped trees (contact local tree trimming services/utility companies) and get them to dump the loads of chipped material (down here, it is fairly easy to do...not sure if it would work the same in Canada). After it composts for about a year it is good to go...quite useful as mulch and soil amendment. You can spike the piles with some forest soil or compost to 'jump start' them.
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Post by garnetmoth on May 10, 2011 10:43:52 GMT -5
Hiyas Telsing- what animals do you have? running birds into the beds for a few days to fertilize and clean up can be good before a next crop, definitely keeping things in a cover crop, and sheet composting in areas if you can get quantity of sawdust, chips, compost, leaf mold, etc.
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Post by mnjrutherford on May 10, 2011 11:54:26 GMT -5
I think you should attempt a terra preta experiment. Be VERY patient. For us, the birds (as Kelly has suggested) have been invaluable. If you can afford the mass quantity of seed, pick a few leafy brassicas you really like and throw them everywhere. I'm using mustard. The idea is to replace the undesirable weeds with desirable weeds. I think you are on the right track with the notion of leaving no unplanted areas.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 10, 2011 12:06:37 GMT -5
I did an experiment a couple weeks ago. Instead of taking the grass clippings and mowed leaf litter from our apple trees, i spread it out most of it over where my watermelon patch will be this year. The interesting thing is that even after only a few weeks of light spring rains, the soil was surprisingly easier to furrow yesterday when i planted my watermelon seeds. This was an area that was not tilled last year at all, and was too dry and hard to dig in really.
I think any type of organic compost will be great. The soil around our apple trees is really dry and hard after years of the trees producing fruit, but we've never mulched them before. If you are able to get a lot of leaves, maybe try shredding them up to help them decompose faster and try to mulch at least several inches high if you can.
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Post by steev on May 13, 2011 21:09:16 GMT -5
Wherever you spread leaf litter/chip mulch, spread on clean wood ash to help moderate the acidity of tannins; that'll help those items break down. Even any spare cement powder is fine, just be sure not to leave clumps, just a dusting. Mixed cement will do as well, if you really thin it so it doesn't make clumps. Just a thought, if you're doing any projects that leave such leftovers.
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Post by 12540dumont on Jul 19, 2011 21:04:35 GMT -5
Today I hit the motherload. The back portion of the farm has been managed by my brother. I'm using the term managed lightly. This year when the hay guy had come, I spoke to him about the increasing lack of fertility on the back of the farm. We got to talking and he had found out that the local compost company and a boo-boo batch. It was contaminated with glass. Stupid people who throw bottles in the greenwaste containers. Anyway I called them up and look 10 transfer truck loads of compost....FREE. They are also going to spread it and the hay guy is going to disc it in. The glass pieces are less than 1/4". In a million years, it will go back to sand. Attachments:
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Post by steev on Jul 19, 2011 23:51:58 GMT -5
It's remarkable how fast being mixed in soil takes the sharp off glass, so that those fragments will be no hazard whatsoever. Great score!
As to what people will throw in the green waste, I once saw an old washer dumped in the green pile, and another time a load of paint cans ( lids on, so likely not empty ). Some people are very unclear on the concept.
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Post by synergy on Jul 20, 2011 11:57:25 GMT -5
Some people are assbackwards stupid and unwilling to think. What a boon 1254dumont. I have kept horses for decades and put all the manure to use and still need more. I am learning a lot though and found this video by beef producer Gary Judy to very enlightening even though I do not have cattle. His thought in developing his own farming process just fascinates me and is inspiring me in how I transition my farm. His considerations regarding pasture management are very relative to us as gardeners so I hope some take the time to watch this lengthy video (over an hour) www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6HGKSvjk5Q&feature=player_embedded#at=2550 |
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Post by seedywen on Jul 20, 2011 15:12:07 GMT -5
10 transfer loads of compost with a little sharp glass thrown in for drainage:) What a great score!
snergy, I watched that Gary Judy video for the first time last week, and found it inspiring.
By default I've been managing a two acre hayfield for my goats, then boarded horses and sheep and currently a couple of eight month old calves, the way Gary describes.
By this I mean, couldn't get anyone even neighbours with tractors, to hay and bale this acreage because the deal basically was, they'd come, cut, bale and take the whole crop. That seemed a pretty negative deal to me!
For some years, we cut the field with a sickle bar attached to our heavy duty Italian made rototiller. Then the three kids and myself hand-raked the hay and loaded it, loose into the small pick-up truck for delivery to the old barn. Kids had a ball, playing in that barn for years, burrowing into the loose hay until the structure started leaning about 30 degrees. So we dismantled it as best as could be done and then tried to pull that sucker down with a cable to the truck.
Do you think that barn would fall over, when push came to shove?
Not on your life! So the standing timbers got chainsawed finally.
Anyway I digress. again:)
I just wish could also pasture the larger animals on the other eight acres but that land is not electrically fenced. And unfortunately cougars and bears migrate through the land on a regular basis. So I'm forever cutting bush, blackberries, evergreen branches and throwing it over into the two acre pasture.
However thanks to Gary's video, I better understand now, it's good practice. Chew, chew, stomp, stomp...ha! ha!
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Post by 12540dumont on Jul 23, 2011 11:27:33 GMT -5
Synergy, what a great video. Makes me wish I still had sheep. Yesterday the compost company came and spread the compost all over the farm (except my acre).
The compost is 3 inches deep over the other 10 acres. Leo estimated it would have been about $5000 to have this done if we had paid for it. About 15 transfer trucks came here. There's still more. If you live in Santa Clara County, give Zbest a call.
It has a lovely smell of cow...my father used to call it the smell of money. You couldn't keep cattle unless you had money.
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Post by steev on Jul 24, 2011 20:47:21 GMT -5
That's a truly awesome windfall! I don't suppose they'd go to Colusa County. However, it occurs to me that municipalities are increasingly under the gun to reduce their unrecycled wastestream, so I may do some research. My farm's in the middle of nowhere, but I'd be willing to let them cover ~15 acres 6" deep with decent organic matter. Sure would impress the neighbors.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Jul 25, 2011 5:19:18 GMT -5
We have a very large patch of land (close on an acre I'd guess) where almost nothing will grow. It is a moderate slope and only at the bottom where it leads to a watercourse will things grow away. It used to be planted with poplars until a few years ago. It is sandy soil in the top six inches or so, and then gets down into a hard pan with clay or rock just below that. It is so dry, that almost every tree we've planted in it just dies after the first year despite watering. Water either runs off the surface or sinks and disappears. I'm trying walnuts next but it would be nice to plant lots of other things. We really just want tree cover here as a windbreak and to hide a nearby fence.
Is there anyway of improving a soil like this other than by deep tilling to break up the pan or would that make it worse? Or should I start piling on mulch materials? Most of the soil is covered with grass and scrub now. I really don't know what to do next. Any hints on ways to plant trees that would work, such as with a digger and half a trailer load of good soil? The rest of the land we have for our garden is hyper fertile and humid in comparison.
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Post by steev on Jul 25, 2011 10:51:01 GMT -5
Pile on the organic matter and let it rot. Pile in contour swales to help retard run-off. If you go to digging holes in the hardpan to plant trees, mostly re-fill the holes with what you took out, otherwise it's like planting in a pot, leading to the tree getting pot-bound. They have to be resigned to rooting out into the hard substrate, also sometimes they drown from being in a hole without adequate outlet.
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Post by raymondo on Jul 26, 2011 3:00:21 GMT -5
I'm with steev. Dumping mulch on contours is a good idea. Better still, if you can, dig swales. Plant on the down hill side of the swale mound. Dump organic matter into the swale trough to help feed the trees.
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