tree grindings to smother out a section of lawn?

[chaparrazo]

hi, new here as i came across this forum the other day and have a question:

i'm looking to smother out a corner of my lot with grass, dandilion and goatheads. thinking about laying down cardboard, then about 6 to 8 in of tree grindings. then i want to restart with xeriscape plants for that section of the yard. i live in boise, id, zone 6 high desert and am tired of wasting water on grass and weeds - this ain't kentucky, folks! i have drip irrigation that i'll set up and cut holes in this mulch to do the plantings. i know the argument that this'll suck up nitrogen and think it won't be a problem since i'm not using it to make compost, just to smother out the old growth and i'm too cheap to buy bark, gravel, etc. etc.

so i'm calling tree services and asking if they'd dump off 10 yds of grindings to get started and one of the tree service guys says, "you know most of what we grind is diseased and such, are you sure you want to put that in your landscape?" so i'm taken aback a bit.

so i talked to 2 master gardener friends (recent graduates) and get two opinions: 1 says don't cuz that makes sense, the other says tree diseases are usually tree specific and you probably won't have a problem - what xeri trees to you have planned?

looking for other opinions and ideas for cheap smothering materials?

thanks!

[mjc]

Simple fact of the the matter is most tree diseases ARE rather species specific AND require a living tree. Those rusts and such that do live on multiple species don't survive composting very well...in fact most things don't (some of the fruit tree specific ones might...though).

So, in general, you will be fine if you are letting the material compost at least 1 yr before using.

[steev]

You didn't note what sort of grass you have. If it's a nice, tame type ( bluegrass, fescue, etc ) you should have no problem, but if you've got some horrid runner type ( bermuda, crabgrass, etc ) you'll have to be vigilant about ripping it out when it rears its head until you wear it out.

As was pointed out, if you're looking to plant next year, the chipped tree mulch should be fine, although you might want to invest in some ammonium sulfate or poultry poo just to help things along.

[happyskunk]

I use cardboard and just put straw on top. If any of those roots had Armillaria root disease it could spread to almost any tree species.

[coppice]

At some point in time the lawn isn't getting any more water? As well as a light blocking layer of cardboard and chiped wood? The lawn is going to pretty profoundly decline.

Tree disease issues are vastly over sold, or not applicable.

I foresee a time when there isn't much lawn or cradboard left. How dilligently you dig out the remaining weeds or non-xeriscape plants. Will I expect be where the rubber hits the road for you.

If I'm reading this right a permanent (light blocking) mulch of ground wood is not in your plans.

makes more sence doing this like a duck nibbling bread than to hire the yard being planed off by heavy equipment. Cheeper too I'll wager.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

May 14, 2011 12:08:25 GMT -5 coppice said:

makes more sence doing this like a duck nibbling bread than to hire the yard being planed off by heavy equipment. Cheeper too I'll wager.

Before I started farming one of my fields it had been planed off by heavy equipment. I sure wish I had the topsoil, but it's nice not to have to worry about rhizomic grasses, morning glory, or other perennial weeds. I grow enough annual weed seeds to make up for it!!!!

[chaparrazo]

thanks for the feedback.

i've got heinz 57 grass, or ecclectic grass . lots of malva neglecta, prickly lettuce and some other nice flowering stuff that's native to the rolling sage basin too.

i'm concerned about the tree disease because i will be planting some nice trees around and in other areas that are not xeri as well. the xeriscape area will be watered to get things established and then reduced to keep things looking nice in various zones.

once the old stuff is smothered, i want to little by little move towards other types of mulches and composts to transition to where i'm going, but mostly i want to do this on the cheap and poco a poco. lava rock, river rock, gravel, manure and other stuff from craigslist free.

anyone ever talked with landscaping companies to ask if they'll dump all their cut grass on your lot? wouldn't do either of these things for a veggie patch, but for xeri i figure i won't be eating much of it. or and other ideas?

[Walk]

We did the cardboard and shredded trees method to expand our garden 3 years ago (was sheep pasture). It worked really well except for where there was quack grass runners, but we dug those out eventually. A bit of urine on the chips can speed it up. Mostly the wood chips grew nice mycelium and fruited some kind of mushrooms (couldn't ID them to know if they were edible or not). Most of the chips are now a nice, black compost and the remaining residue is substantially reduced. We have more rain here which helped with the fungal breakdown. We also planted hills of squash in holes cut into some of the area starting the first year, so their were vines on top of the chips. I wish we could get some more free chips. The year we did this the utility company had a crew cutting trees under the power lines. They were thrilled to have a place to dump 3 truck loads instead of having to drive 13 miles to the county compost site. The power company removed the poles and buried the lines after the clearing, so they won't be doing any trimming in our vicinity in the future.

[seedywen]

As a person, known to approach municipal road mulching crews and chase down, private garden companies with full loads to dump...in an effort to gain more bulk mulching materials... offer the following suggestions:

If tree disease is a concern:if you know what trees/brush the crews are mulching, then this information will mitigate whether there's cause for concern. In my situation, the road crews are mulching my road and the neighbouring roads, so it's easy to assess the conditions of the trees growing before the mulching, they're healthy and growing in wild profusion...so for me, it's a desirable product.
They're happy to have an easier/ closer place to dump and I'm happy to have them dump on invitation to my property.

For garden companies, with loads of lawn clippings, if I can't get a satisfactory answer from either the company or the owners of the properties being worked on, that no inorganic sprays, products like Weed and Feed are used, than it's a pass.

In my area, there are numerous modern and older sawmill sites where sawdust/ fresh or aged are available for the asking. So I don't take unnecessary risks with products of dubious background.

Although once, I chased down a lawn company whose trailer was full of decidely mossy lawn clippings. It was with a bit of trepidation that I got them to dump their load which I laid on my perennial beds and pathways. A little afraid, given this is the Wet Coast, that the moss would root and totally submerge my beds. Not to worry,

Gardens looked like fairy gardens for one year, all mossy and green between the perennials and by the next year, the moss had broken down and disappeared. Such has been the case with years of sawdust, chips, barks etc. Our climate gets so much annual rainfall that the natural scheme of things, is to turn all organic matter into topsoil.

I used to worry about the nitrogen depletion issue because of books I'd read but here, as long as you build the soil continously with quality compost, cover crops and in my case, because having gardened the same spot for 20 years, annual application of COF(complete organic fertilizers) in the planting rows, my small market garden thrives.

[steev]

Bear in mind that while Armillaria can attack many species, we can attack Armillaria; it's fruiting pattern is cespitose, which is to say it sprouts like a bouquet of mushrooms, so if you get to it before insects do, you generally have a pan-full, and they are considered choice.

[chaparrazo]

interesting! now that you mention, i have a strip about 3ft wide between fence and sidewalk that i dumped tree grindings on last fall and saw some mushrooms growing on the shady side of the fence this spring. gonna have to bone up on mycology next. that stuff is settling in nicely and looks decent. am thinking of planting a row of thuga plicata green giants for headlight and sound barrier along that fenceline but not sure they'll fit when big. maybe bamboo?

just talked to a big yard care company who might dump a load of cut grass for me but no guarantee about chemicals. guess i'll have to weigh if i want that or chance disease with wood chippings.

either way i'm inclined to think that in the general organic stew of life a lot of things are reduced to harmless and if you make the right balance, nature can do wonders. in spring we get a bit of rain, but then it's bone dry here till late fall. like i say, this will be a xeri area and i don't plan on eating anything from this area.

then there's the appearance issue and the neighbors - this is not a rural location and even though the cc & rs are not strict, i'd like to be a decent neighbor. cardboard with a bunch of brown grass clippings probably won't win many good neighbor points. i'm thinking the tree chippings at least look more like bark mulch till i can get new plantings started and established.

maybe i can plant a bunch of pumpkins and cover the whole area with vines? why is it that working with nature (and without a lot of money and petroleum and chemicals) is so hard? where is Masanobu Fukuoka when you need him?

anyway, thanks again! i've rambled on enough here: the brainstorming continues . . .

[steev]

Apparently pumpkin tender leaves and tips are tasty greens; I've not tried that, but I know I'm going to.

Be careful planting bamboo; if you put in a running sort, your neighbors may curse you vigorously.