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Post by steev on Jun 30, 2016 23:17:31 GMT -5
Isn't this what genetic diversity is all about? Let's get back to the sort of diversity we had a century ago! To hell with the genetic homogeneity that works for Patented Big Ag! Big Ag doesn't give a husky fuck what serves the needs/uses of actual people. They only care about commodification, whether crops or people. Subvert the dominant paradigm!
Weeds? Oh, hell yes; they have no dependence on us; we should be so lucky that our crops would be so independent, but there it is: what we want to grow is dependent on our constant care; we must take care of the crops that feed us, because they are to our interests, not Nature's. Nature is willing that we exist (up to a point), but not interested in promoting us, although homocentric reasoning would insist that we are the center, and therefore, the Crown of Creation; what hubris!
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 1, 2016 12:21:54 GMT -5
Today the scape opened in the TGS grown plant. It has lots of flowers and I do see bulbils underneath.  |
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Post by philagardener on Jul 1, 2016 16:41:39 GMT -5
Nice progress!
Restored fertility would be idea (since that unlocks the genetics); it will be interesting to see how that plant does with seed set.
Having bulbils too offers a quick route to multiply a favorable selection; as with potato onions, fertility may reveal a lot of genetic diversity that will remix with each generation.
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 2, 2016 4:00:21 GMT -5
Today the scape opened in the TGS grown plant. It has lots of flowers and I do see bulbils underneath. Cool to see the umbel from a TGS plant. Is this your first ever TGS plant with scape and viable umbel? I assume you really would have preferred to see only flowers and no bulbil development. So now you have to remove those bulbils once again to get second generation TGS, correct? I have read that after several generations it is possible to have umbels that develop only flowers and no bulbils. A worthwhile goal, think how easy it would be from that point forward regarding getting TGS from that strain. It is actually my first TGS plant. It was started last year from my first set of TGS. I had 4 plants out of that seed and only 2 plants made it through last winter. One of those plants (the one above) made a scape this year and the other did not. I would love to see all flowers but a full umbel is just as good for me. I'm not sure if less bulbils would increase the amount of flowers in my main garlic anyway. I'm very fortunate with having very full flowers heads. I am planning on removing the bulbils to help with seed production in all varieties. Any TGS I get from that plant I will save separate and consider F2 seed. From what I have read the TGS plants should produce more seed and the seed produced have better germination and survival rates. So far I have had less than 10% germination. This last set had 23 out of 500 sprout. Out of the 23 only 5 made it more than a few weeks. So I am really looking forward to that getting better. |
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Post by reed on Jul 2, 2016 6:33:12 GMT -5
Two of my TGS plants have always been poorly compared to the other one and since it got hot they have continued to decline. You can see one of them there to the left of the good one. Maybe they segregated into one that likes me and a couple that don't. The one that does seems to be doing very well and hope to see it make it's own seeds next year.  |
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 2, 2016 13:15:52 GMT -5
That's something that I saw last year too. Some will die down with the normal garlic and others don't. One of the ones that died down made a round before it did last year. I think that is the one that has a scape this year. It started growing again in the fall.  Some of the seed that sprouts will never make it to a true leaf. Some of those will be albino. They just sprout and die. I think it is due to genetic damage. One of the 5 plants that were started this year has already died down. I'm not sure if it was due to the time of year or not but I'm not tossing it yet. |
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 2, 2016 13:23:50 GMT -5
Your seedling looks great by the way. It is way farther ahead than mine. I think I will start mine in mid winter from now on. The only seedlings I have are from the seeds I sowed on 5/1 after I gave up on the winter sown batch. I have a hard time getting them to get sizable.
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Post by reed on Jul 2, 2016 23:47:58 GMT -5
I have in my notes I put mine in the ground on April 20, I think I started them about mid January, they sure were slow to sprout and slow to get to any size. The ones I direct planted never sprouted but if I ever get seeds I think direct planting is exactly what I will do and immediately on harvesting them. I just got a feeling it might work and that they would winter over fine as small seedlings.
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andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
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Post by andyb on Jul 3, 2016 0:37:35 GMT -5
This is really cool stuff. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 10, 2016 21:19:17 GMT -5
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Post by reed on Jul 11, 2016 13:08:29 GMT -5
Nifty trick, it never occurred to me to try removing them at that stage. My attempts to remove them at a later stage were quickly abandoned, it was clearly just going to leave a mess with no bulbils or flowers either one.
Didn't you have to remove the covering off the entire umbel first?
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 11, 2016 16:04:11 GMT -5
Wow 50 is quite a few. I'm going to be doing around 75 this year and dreading it.
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Post by steev on Jul 11, 2016 18:44:26 GMT -5
Are we using fingers, or tweezers, to get bulbils out? I'd opt for tweezers.
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Post by kazedwards on Jul 11, 2016 18:48:56 GMT -5
Wow 50 is quite a few. I'm going to be doing around 75 this year and dreading it. Well, 50 is quite a few knowing the whole effort is likely for naught. Doing your 75 knowing there is a high likelihood of getting seed sounds more fun to me. I would be thrilled if I get even one seed this year, that would at least tell me there is a possibility of a successful outcome with this variety/type. If a complete failure I will drop this experimenting on rocamboles and will focus on purple stripes like your Chesnok Red from here on. How long does it take you to complete the removal process on one umbel? 8-10 minutes? Once I had a few under my belt I averaged 3.5 minutes per umbel, but of course I was dealing with far fewer bulbils per umbel, though. I guess I will get a better idea of what you are dealing with when I work on some German Extra Hardy umbels. Getting started on each umbel is what takes the longest. Once I get the first 10 or so bulbils out it only takes maybe a minute. I just roll my finger over them with enough pressure to dislodge the bulbils but not hard enough to hurt the flowers. They just roll out. I keep a big bowl underneath that catches them. I typically spend 5-10 minutes a day doing it and after a week or to I will have them done. |
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Post by reed on Jul 11, 2016 19:55:31 GMT -5
Your keep a bowl to catch them? Does that mean they are good to save and plant at that stage? Or maybe throw them in a skillet with a little butter and some mushrooms?
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