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Post by steev on Sept 16, 2011 13:44:58 GMT -5
At the Heirloom Expo was a display of produce representing the California Rare Fruit Growers, which included some branches of very fruitful Autumn Olive. I have a shrub that's 5 years old and has never produced a berry, so I asked about it. The expert at the display said he has two shrubs, side-by-side, one fruitful and the other not, with no clue why they are different. Anybody got an idea what I can do for my barren shrub? Beat it with a chain? Feed it weasel dung? Ship it to Siberia?
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Post by castanea on Sept 16, 2011 21:24:27 GMT -5
I'd love to know the answer to that question. In the past I had a few of them but none ever set fruit. So they are now deceased.
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Post by grunt on Sept 16, 2011 23:06:02 GMT -5
Actually steev, your joking suggestion "Beat it with a chain" might do the trick. Some of the older trees in my grandfather's orchard got the axe handle treatment when their productivity got too low, and it seemed to wake things up.
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Post by steev on Sept 17, 2011 0:22:18 GMT -5
Actually, I've heard of people "renewing" oranges by jolting them with a tractor to "root-prune" them. I think I'll prune it back severely this Winter,give it a hefty dose of ashes for P and K, maybe root the cuttings. I have my doubts about beating it; that never seemed to work on me, but I had a bad attitude. Maybe it has low self-esteem.
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Post by blueadzuki on Sept 17, 2011 8:04:06 GMT -5
And I have vauge memories of reading somewhere (in a Ripley's colum) of some villages that "wake up" thier (regular)olive trees in the spring by beating them and making as much loud noise as possible. I just though it was a folk custom, like the tradition in some parts of italy that basil will grow better if your constantly yell and curse at it.
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Post by MikeH on Sept 18, 2011 18:33:45 GMT -5
Maybe you should get a second one. Although most indications are that it is self-fertile, Lee Reich in Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden indicates that they are partially self-fertile. Maybe that's the problem.
Did you grow it from seed? If so Reich says that plants grown from seed require 5 or more years to fruit.
Regards,
Mike
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Post by steev on Sept 18, 2011 23:53:58 GMT -5
The guy at the Expo said they aren't two sexes, nor different varieties, just one of his fruits and the other doesn't, planted side-by-side.
I got mine from One Green World five years ago, don't know how they propagate, but I would suppose from cuttings. I guess I'll leave mine until I need that space; if it isn't fruiting by the time I fill the remaining 17 unutilized acres, it's toast! Perhaps I'll direct my survivors to dig it out so they can plant me in the hole so the fruitless wretch won't out-live me by much.
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Post by ottawagardener on Sept 19, 2011 8:23:33 GMT -5
Even if there aren't different sexed plants, they may benefit from cross fertilization. That said, plants just differ in their productivity. Have you tried stressing you plant out a bit? Is it in a frost pocket which might be killing off blossoms (can't remember how early it flowers or its frost tolerance etc...). Is it receiving too much nutrients for some reason. Sounds like you are giving it a good chance unless of course you can fill 17 acres faster than me which is entirely possible  I'd go see if you could beg cuttings from someone with a productive bush!! |
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Post by spacecase0 on Sept 19, 2011 17:09:01 GMT -5
Did you grow it from seed? If so Reich says that plants grown from seed require 5 or more years to fruit. that sure is a long time for a bush, that kind of makes me want to get plants first and put my seeds in the ground as soon as I can. |
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Post by steev on Sept 19, 2011 21:57:47 GMT -5
I can't even keep my current ~3 acres decently weeded and planted; the likelihood of my filling the other 17 is receeding faster than my youth. I'm starting to seriously consider livestock as a way of using much of that area. So many projects, so little time.
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Post by castanea on Sept 23, 2011 20:15:24 GMT -5
When I gave up on Autumn olive I just concentrated on Guomi. Guomi isn't invasive and most people say the fruit is superior to Autumn olive anyway. I stil haven't tried Autum olive so I don't know.
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Post by MikeH on Sept 23, 2011 21:06:55 GMT -5
When I gave up on Autumn olive I just concentrated on Guomi. Guomi isn't invasive and most people say the fruit is superior to Autumn olive anyway. I stil haven't tried Autum olive so I don't know. Autumn Olive is potentially invasive according to Global Invasive Species Database: The fact that germination apparently requires 4 months of cold strat at -10 to -20 C would seem to restrict its spread and location quite a bit. There seems to be very little research done and many of the references are circular leading to one reference written in 1987 - www.invasive.org/gist/esadocs/documnts/elaeumb.pdf and that document is, at best, vague on its invasiveness. I would think that we'd see a lot more of it after 180 years since its introduction. From personal observation, I've seen it growing at one location west of us on the south side of Rice Lake. It's growing in rocky, sandy soil and while there are a number of trees, they are nowhere near as thick or widespread as the European Buckthorn growing near it. That one is truly impressive. The fruit of the autumn olive is very tasty although it ranges from tart to sweet depending on the tree. That being the case, I suspect that the seeds don't come true when it comes to sweetness. If you find a sweet tree, it's probably best to try taking cuttings. The jelly made from the berries is wonderful, on a par with wild grape, rose hip, wild plum & crab for subtle but distinct flavour. Added: I was just reading the 1987 document again and came across "E. umbellata produces a large amount of seed, each tree producing 2-8 lbs. of seed per year and the number of seeds per lb. ranging from 20,000-54,000." That's just plain wrong based on my observations of the trees at Rice Lake. The seed makes up most of the fruit so the 2-8 lbs per tree is about right. The rest of the sentence is nonsense. There's no way in hell that one of these trees produces 40,000 to 432,000 seeds. We've got some berries from last year frozen. I'll take a quick peek later to guestimate seeds/pound. Regards, Mike |
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Post by steev on Sept 23, 2011 21:31:42 GMT -5
Unless my plant starts fruiting, it sure ain't gonna be invasive.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Sept 24, 2011 3:45:00 GMT -5
Its a moderately invasive plant here in the Eastern Woodlands. Pretty fair bird planted invader of abandoned hayfields and waste spaces I'd say. Not nearly in the league of multiflora rose. There are some old fields just south of Ithaca, NY where practially the whole hillside is Autumn Olive and Japanese Honeysuckle. Supposedly it is bad for the local ecology due to the fact that it fixes its own nitrogen so it changes the nitrogen economy of the local ecosystem. Personally I like the plant. They are fairly pretty, feed the birds, the fruit is good to eat, they fix nitrogen, they are hardy, and not too hard to kill when you need to. Plus no thorns to speak of.
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