|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 25, 2011 12:48:57 GMT -5
I sure wish I'd convert my garden to no-till. I love the picture of your corn patch. I'm giggling.  You said Pennsylvania is dry? What's the statistic? You've had something like 19" of rain since June 1st this year. You get rainfall on average every third day during the summer, which drops about an inch of rain per week. Sure you might go as long as two weeks without a storm. But you get a huge influx of water onto your garden, and high humidity the rest of the time, and lots of dew and sunlight filtered through haze which retard the evaporation and transpiration of water. As far as I can tell, Pennsylvania is a moisture lover's dream. Come out here to the desert and I'll show you dry, and arid, and low humidity, and clear skies, and brilliant sunlight. I always worry about sending seeds back East to such a high humidity regime. (We received 1.8" of rain since June 1st) In my plants I might be eliminating the genetics responsible for dealing with high humidity and lots of water. The terms "fixed evolution" or "fixed evolution hybrid" are not in my vocabulary, I wonder what they mean? |
|
|
|
Post by steev on Oct 25, 2011 14:59:20 GMT -5
Regarding the GMO-labelling concern, and whether that means those who don't grow GMO's have to certify that they don't: if the regulations are written by agribusiness ( Monsanto ), it will be another way to screw the small producer by raising the buy-in and stay-in, just as organic certification was written to be.
Once again, this is potential "guilty until proven innocent", with the burden of proof falling disproportionately heavily on small producers. For that reason, anyone not engaged in agribusiness needs to resist this trend toward restraint of trade by the corporations that resent regulation and disclosure, and if forced to be open about their activities, they will make every effort to punish and drive out small producers.
The only way GMO-labelling can work fairly is for those who knowingly use GMO's to be required to disclose that, under pain of meaningful, effective penalties for failure to comply. Yes, I'm suggesting incarceration and seisure of assets of corporate officers and execution of non-compliant corporations, preferably in the public square with liberal supplies of rotten produce available to those spectators who want to have a fling. Got tomatoes?
|
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 25, 2011 15:02:34 GMT -5
well more of the genes are to tolerate dry and they thrive in wet, it would not be a subtractive process to begin more stressing of those qualities. i do not live in a moisture lovers dream. we had over 100 days with no rain in the wexford location this year. the area has statistically high rain which is not always accurate. my kitchen garden at a different location stays more wet, but thats because of the area. where i grow my corn is the top of a dry hill that is hard to get anything to work and when it does the deer eat it. i supposed i get more rain than utah, but we are turning into a desert here and the soil is disappearing as the ground water is getting fracked.
fixed evolution means that the evolution of the lines was not influenced by migration. my ancestors have grown this corn, where i grow it, forever. when two fixed evolution landraces are crossed, you get a hybrid swarm of two fixed evolution landraces.
no till keeps your soil from getting destroyed and provides the ecological support we need to survive. the roman style agriculture that came here with the waves of colonization continue to ravage soils that do not need to be abused to produce food. since this land in its entirety is a graveyard, and the flesh of my people is mixed with the soil here, when it is damaged and abused, it is the bodies of my people that is combusting into CO2, and running into drains to the ocean. it is an emotional issue for me to see so much bare soil in america.
|
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 25, 2011 16:05:30 GMT -5
i also wanted to mention that this reminds me of tom wagner's "landraces" TPS (true potato seed), and if you are down to give them andean extremes as young'ns, that would be awesome to see propagated in the states.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 25, 2011 20:02:10 GMT -5
Curious. Here's the precipitation that a weather station a few miles from Wexford reported for this growing season. The longest period without rain is 11 days.  And here's the precipitation that a weather station a few miles from my place reported for the same time period:  Both graphs are to the same scale (displayed as inches of precipitation) with one line for the daily rainfall, and another for cumulative total for the year. Out here, rain shadows (and the reciprocal effect) are well known and taken into account, but I can't envision any physical reason for Wexford rainfall patterns to be radically different than the surrounding area. Are there metaphysical reasons for a lack of rain in Wexford? |
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 25, 2011 20:57:24 GMT -5
Both graphs are to the same scale (displayed as inches of precipitation) with one line for the daily rainfall, and another for cumulative total for the year. Out here, rain shadows (and the reciprocal effect) are well known and taken into account, but I can't envision any physical reason for Wexford rainfall patterns to be radically different than the surrounding area. Are there metaphysical reasons for a lack of rain in Wexford? i dont know if you mean to mock me with the metaphysical comment, but im giving you the word of my mother, becuase i grow in wexford but dont live there. it seemed to be the case as there was alot of death and crisped earth from the drought. my other location half an hour away was very wet, and when it was raining i would call my mother and she said it was dry. |
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 25, 2011 20:59:30 GMT -5
also i never said PA was dry, i said i dry farm, meaning without irrigation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 25, 2011 22:09:06 GMT -5
I don't ever mock anyone. To me, anything that cannot be (or is not) measured is metaphysical... A family's memory and/or observation/communication skills certainly falls into the metaphysical category for me.
A remarkably extraordinary claim was made: No rain for 100 days in Pennsylvania. I don't see how that is physically possible. I don't even get that little rain out here in the driest parts of the desert. So I started looking for a human (metaphysical) explanation. People can have radically different world-views than I do. Words can get slippery when an indigenous viewpoint and a roman viewpoint start discussing the meaning of rain. In some cases, I am barely able to follow the train of thought, since it is so foreign to my roman way of raping the Earth. Takes a lot of careful attention on my part. But I'm struggling through it, cause I know that what I'm currently doing is wrong. I don't know how to get from where I am to a better way. Or perhaps I know how, but am not willing to pay the price.
For what it's worth, I leave a soup can in my garden. That way I can know how much rain has fallen, and/or how much irrigation I have applied. I call my family sometimes too.
|
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 25, 2011 22:38:02 GMT -5
its hard to tell what people really mean on internet/written communication sometimes.
i should have clarified from the get-go that it was my mother's claim, as i dont have anything of my own to back it up, like your soup can measurements. one thought i had when doubting her is perhaps it rained in her sleep. >..<
i agree with you for myself, that i damage my soil unintentionally sometimes, and i have so much to learn about what im doing wrong, and what im doing right.
as for our ways of thinking, i dont know what to say. i didnt mean to offend you. if you wanted to say you doubted my claim, that perhaps it rained when we didnt notice, it would not have offended me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 25, 2011 23:55:26 GMT -5
If something can be measured, I'm all over it. I've been participating in on-line forums for 17 years, usually on subject matters much more controversial than gardening. (It's been many years since I made a post about sin or immorality.) I'm unlikely to be offended by anything that anyone has to say, even if they accuse me of having Roman ways.  Good thing you're here now, otherwise I would have never considered that my immoral behavior is rooted that far back in history. |
|
|
|
Post by steev on Oct 26, 2011 0:33:31 GMT -5
Well played, gentlemen, well played, indeed.
Personally, I think my immoral behavior is rooted much further back than Rome. I put it to the protohominids that first started bipedalism, thereby freeing their hands to idleness and the Devil's work.
|
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 26, 2011 0:57:13 GMT -5
i dont consider striving to reconnect with your food immoral. if someone tills not knowing the implications or better ways to tend soil, but is reducing the need for trucks and supermarkets and industrial farms, that would mean less over all land usage. we all have room for improvement and i find myself humbled by my ignorance when faced with the unyielding mystery of creation. i want to share how i feel, and my way of seeing. here is one thing to read that may help explain my perspective: ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/BasicCtC.htmlthe intro: ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/6nations1.html#part1 |
|
|
|
Post by turtleheart on Oct 26, 2011 10:17:19 GMT -5
I would have never considered that my immoral behavior is rooted that far back in history. we are taught to do things without questioning them. who originally thought that stuff up, living it the first time? it must have been someone really long ago. i find myself in unhealthy practices in my relationships, and i can see a pattern, perhaps these pathologies of mine are rooted to some primal trauma, back when all us humans were still observing our ecological responsibilities. the colonial agricultural system was originated most likely in the middle east. people would destroy the native economy by destroying the ecology and agriculture of the native people and then be able to assimilate them into the new agricultural systems that grew from the clear cut forest floors. it was pivotal to the transformation of europe and the civilization of european tribes. civilization is a ordering of populations characterized by cities. cities are population concentrations that outweigh the landbases' carrying capacity necessitating importation of foreign resources (and the creation of a way of thinking that can conceive the idea of resources), and because the resources of others are necessary for the survival of those in the city, they will fight for them as though their lives depend on it. before rome, the majority of europe was living in a way that did not over-tax the ability of the land to carry them. when the celts were colonized, their trees were cut (which they ate the seeds and nuts from) and their deer and auroch were killed. they were shown the only way to survive, roman style agriculture. no wonder it is still the norm for americans today. we need to take the bits we have left of the systems that work for us and find new ways of remaining in balance with the soil. the need becomes greater as time goes by. |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 4, 2015 23:30:09 GMT -5
I currently have sunroot tubers for sale. I'm asking $25 cash for a small flat rate box of them, which will contain two tubers each of at least 6 different varieties.
To my frequent trading partners and collaborators. I'll send them as a gift if you can cover the $6 postage. Sorry that I have to ask, it's been a tough year.
They are F1 or F2 hybrids of crosses between a commercial sunroot and an improved wild population which originated in Kansas. They produce lots of seeds in my garden if the flower heads are bagged soon after petal drop to prevent predation by birds. I have selected these for high productivity of tubers, short(ish) stolons, and vigorous growth under my no-input growing conditions. I have also selected for non-knobby tubers to make cleaning and harvest easier. I'll also send a sample of the commercial clone.
While these can be grown as food for man or beast, I use them primarily as a breeding population. If you've always wanted to do a Jerusalem artichoke breeding project, but didn't want to expend the effort of overcoming the self-incompatibility issue, then this population has just what you need. Or grow them as clones, selecting whichever varieties please you, or grow best under your conditions. I'll put numbers on the different varieties so that you can send me grow-reports if you'd like. I love hearing how my things grow!
Let's make arrangements via personal message or email.
I don't have a good place to store sunroots, and they are susceptible to freezing in transit, so let's get shipping taken care of before about November 18th.
I'm not interested in shipping tubers outside the us.
I also have seeds for sale of the improved wild population. $5 per packet. Productivity of tubers is low because they are still very feral! Seeds store well, and are available any time...
Later on, I may have F2 seeds to share... They are still drying in the seed heads.
|
|
|
|
Post by reed on Nov 9, 2015 9:08:31 GMT -5
The roots are nice plump healthy looking things. Mine are in the ground ready to sprout next spring. Was going to put them to the back of the woman's flower garden but changed my mind cause of reading that they can be a little unruly. Instead I cleaned out a new spot on the other side of the driveway with the burdock and horseradish. Now that I know for sure what they look like I'm gonna go find some wild ones.
|
|
You said Pennsylvania is dry? What's the statistic? You've had something like 19" of rain since June 1st this year. You get rainfall on average every third day during the summer, which drops about an inch of rain per week. Sure you might go as long as two weeks without a storm. But you get a huge influx of water onto your garden, and high humidity the rest of the time, and lots of dew and sunlight filtered through haze which retard the evaporation and transpiration of water. As far as I can tell, Pennsylvania is a moisture lover's dream.
Good thing you're here now, otherwise I would have never considered that my immoral behavior is rooted that far back in history.