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Post by templeton on Mar 3, 2012 19:40:28 GMT -5
Any tips, Raymondo? I've got Muffet, Amethyst, and Kentucky Wonder and a nameless yellow bush bean all flowering at the moment, and was thinking of doing a few crosses.
T
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Post by oxbowfarm on Mar 3, 2012 20:36:14 GMT -5
Hey Turtleheart! I've got that one too! Tuscarora Cornbread Bean right? Really really pretty.
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Post by raymondo on Mar 3, 2012 23:19:29 GMT -5
Any tips, Raymondo? I've got Muffet, Amethyst, and Kentucky Wonder and a nameless yellow bush bean all flowering at the moment, and was thinking of doing a few crosses. T T, I'm hoping that, like peas, purple with yellow will make red. My cross, if it worked, is purple pollen onto a yellow stigma. Pollination needs a delicate hand T, not my paws unfortunately. I found it very difficult to peel back the keel, which is wrapped around the relevant bits. Many broke. The only one I managed, I'm pretty sure I selfed in the process. The anthers are virtually pressed against the stigma. Needs a magnifier too. My eyesight is too poor these days. Peas are a lot easier. The tyranny of age! |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Mar 4, 2012 9:33:30 GMT -5
Here's a pic of my cutshort bean proto-landrace. Its a "proto" because I haven't seen any sign they've actually crossed at all in 4 years of growing together in my corn. I shell them into one container and plant them together intermixed but they don't seem to want to have sex yet. The bottom right is a brand new one just arrived yesterday via SSE. I was hoping from the description that it was a cutshort and BINGO.  |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Mar 4, 2012 10:58:09 GMT -5
Names of varieties are a tricky question. I am really hesitant to rename something I've gotten unless I'm sure I've changed it in some way. But I can understand renaming something if you find the name offensive. I called it Tuscarora Cornbread bean but it was listed as "Cornbread" bean and then the description says it was a Tuscarora variety.
I've got a similar issue with my favorite B. napus kale. I got it via SSE and it was listed as "Smooth Leaf Portuguese from Azores" which does not exactly trip off the tongue. The lister said they'd gotten it from a Portuguese dairy farmer in California. We always call it Portuguese Dairyman or Dairyman 'cause we're lazy like that. I'm pretty sure I've given it out on HG with just Dairyman kale written on the packet. If someone I'd done that with reoffers it the same kale would be listed under two different names. Confusing? Maybe. Does it give a misrepresentation of how many different heirloom kales are out there? Definitely. Is that actually important? Probably not?
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jim
grub
Posts: 75
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Post by jim on Apr 28, 2012 11:42:38 GMT -5
This link might help people making crosses....let me know what you think, I actually put this together to help people make crosses! Its a little tricky, but not too tough once you get the hang of it. I have made probably thousands of crosses....well watered turgid plants are best! No emasculation required...and beans are self pollinating, so all those wishing for outcrosses might not be so lucky...it is a rare event.
Another problem I see in some people's plans, beans come from 2 gene pools....Andean and MesoAmerican...it is difficult to cross between the two without major manipulation...black, pinto, northerns, reds, among others....Meso.....Kidney, cranberry, most European, Eastern US "Heirlooms"...Andean
Through the action of lethal dwarf genes, root/shoot incompatibility results in plant death before seed is produced when you try to cross between the two gene pools.
Jim
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jim
grub
Posts: 75
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Post by jim on Apr 28, 2012 11:43:27 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 28, 2012 12:22:21 GMT -5
Very nice... I especially liked the recommendation that removing stamens is optional. |
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Apr 28, 2012 12:31:34 GMT -5
Thanks for this very informative article. Sounds like a really good project for this summer. I'm very much enamoured of pole beans too and grow Fortex, a spectacularly good 'green bean' from France. I also grow what is probably the best podding bean for cassoulet or 'fabada', the white seeded climbing bean from Asturias in northern Spain. Crossing either of these with other types, such as the green seeded flageolet climbing bean, might produce some exciting results. A better use of part of the polytunnel than growing too many tomatoes!
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 28, 2012 13:00:58 GMT -5
Bertie, at the end of the season, I would love to swap you for some cassoulet beans.  And Jim, that was very very informative. |
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Post by davida on Apr 28, 2012 18:06:29 GMT -5
Jim, This is great. Really appreciate the fantastic pictures. Thanks, David |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 28, 2012 18:49:09 GMT -5
Its hard to imagine how that presentation could be improved, thank you Jim.
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Post by raymondo on Apr 28, 2012 21:06:23 GMT -5
Thank you Jim. I struggled with a few attempts at hand pollination but was unsuccessful. I destroyed a good number of flowers in the process. My mistake, it seems, was trying to remove the keel. Being coiled around the pistil, it often took the pistil with it when I tried to remove it. Thank you also for the heads up about crosses between the gene pools.
I will have this description on hand next summer when I try again.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Apr 29, 2012 8:19:22 GMT -5
12540Dumont, I'd be happy to send you some Asturian beans (fabada or cassoulet) in October. We are visiting there again in that month to get some fresh stocks so would be happy to oblige.
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Post by davida on Apr 29, 2012 15:07:27 GMT -5
12540Dumont, I'd be happy to send you some Asturian beans (fabada or cassoulet) in October. We are visiting there again in that month to get some fresh stocks so would be happy to oblige. Could you possibly include a few extra beans when you send some to Holly? She can forward them to me? I just wish that I was collecting beans when I was in Europe all those years. Let us know what we can send you from the USA. Thank you, David |
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And Jim, that was very very informative.