Alternative Seed Sources

[Joseph Lofthouse]

The last few days I've seen displays for seeds popping up in the stores. The sensation that they create in me is so weird and unusual that I just have to make a post in the Alternative Agriculture Practices thread to explore it....

In previous years, I have been giddy about seeing the seed racks. It meant that I could drool over them for hours deciding what I want to grow. This year I also studied the racks carefully, not with the intention of buying, but just for pure research purposes....

In times long past, I used to buy all of my seeds from The Company. Over the last three years I have converted almost my entire garden to landrace and to growing my own seeds. I am currently growing about 50 landrace species/varieties and saving the seeds from them. Some of the species are in what I'd call proto-landrace status: Meaning that they haven't been growing long enough in my garden to be well enough adapted to it, or they are not genetically diverse enough to be considered an honest to goodness landrace. But in a year or two they will be. I wrote down a list of species that I am deficient in. There were five or six species. I don't remember all of them but they included hot peppers, and eggplant. [I'll buy them from a nursery this spring.] I am also growing very limited varieties of spices. I intend to plant more spices this summer.

I noticed right away that many of the offerings at the stores are totally unsuitable for our climate. Many of the offerings were heat loving varieties with days-to-maturity way longer than what is available here, even with season extension techniques. Also, many of the varieties were produced in places with damp climates, just the opposite of growing conditions here.

So I walked away dismayed that the best that The Company had to offer was seeds that could be expected to do poorly here. There are two local mom and pop seed stores in the valley that actually trial varieties and only offer things that experience has show do well here, but I feel like the other stores offering seeds are doing a disservice to their customers by their choice of varieties.

I also walked away very content with the state of my seed stash. Thank y'all for teaching me about the value of landrace seeds that are genetically diverse and have been selected to be the best available genetics for my climate, soil, pests, and personality. Thank you for your suggestions and critiques about each species and breeding project over the years.

Thank you also for the clever germplasm and swaps. This will be the first year that I sourced all of my seeds either from my own farm, or from nearby collaborators, or from small scale growers from all over. I'm expecting to buy some nursery hot peppers this spring, and eggplants, and I think I'll continue to do that until I get a better greenhouse. And I'm expecting to buy onion sets/transplants. Other than that, I'm good to go, and very content about it!

[oxbowfarm]

I am also very excited about the ever increasing size and diversity of our seed stash. In these uncertain times a big stash of seeds of all kinds is more reassuring than a 401k for sure!

My own landrace breeding projects are infantile at best. But I am grateful to this board for awakening me to the concept for a much larger group of crops than I originally thought it good for. I would love to free myself from reliance on commercial spinach hybrids for example.

I guess I'm glad that they still put those seed racks in all the big box stores. I feel like even if its a postage stamp garden that's all chunked in on Memorial Day with seed from Walmart, its still better than nothing, and folks are at least growing a little something from the soil themselves. If you think about it, someone who's never gardened before may not even realize that such a thing as seed catalogs even exist, let alone seed saving or landrace breeding etc.

[templeton]

I'm musing on this a bit.
There maybe only a dozen or so 'alternative' suppliers of seeds here in Oz, understandable given the relatively small population and extreme urbanisation.
And these suppliers range from Tasmania, at around 43^osouth, to Brisbane at 27.5^o, with most folks living in Melbourne and Sydney someway between these two.
And the climates, not to mention the soils are so variable (the eastern suburbs of Melbourne recieve twice the rainfall of the western suburbs, without any change in altitude!). So how can a seed company supply anything but generic seed, that probably isn't really adapted to anywhere. Or a range of stuff suited to all sorts of places.
I've been thinking about the economics of developing and selling Central Victorian seed (No, really, I love my current job). If I grow my own seed, I've got to sell 10,000 packets to earn about one third of my current income. That's a lot of envelope licking.
And I just don't think there are that many customers interested in local seed.
I'm blown away by the number of suppliers of locally adapted seed for say the pacific northwest - is this typical for most areas in the US?
T

[oxbowfarm]

No, the Pacific Northwest is the vegetable seed capital of North America. Its also the grass seed capital and forage legume capital. Its not even the Pacific Northwest really, its pretty much just the Willamette Valley. It changes the dynamics of starting a vegetable seed company, I can think of 7 or 8 tiny mom and pop seed companies in Oregon, plus 5 or so moderately big ones, then there are the wholesale giants that grow seed for everyone else. Most of the seed companies in the rest of the US are mainly seed retailers that resell wholesale seed, much of it coming from the Willamette Valley.

[steev]

I've long been disgusted at the practice of SF Bay Area nurseries that sell fruit trees that will virtually never produce significant fruit, due to the lack of temperature range, inadequate cold and/or heat. I suppose they justify it by selling what people want to grow, but it seems cheesy to sell a cherry tree that will be years before it's obvious that no fruit will ever grow.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Mar 8, 2012 11:43:24 GMT -5 steev said:

I've long been disgusted at the practice of SF Bay Area nurseries that sell fruit trees that will virtually never produce significant fruit, due to the lack of temperature range, inadequate cold and/or heat. I suppose they justify it by selling what people want to grow, but it seems cheesy to sell a cherry tree that will be years before it's obvious that no fruit will ever grow.

Many of The Company nurseries around here sell Thomson Seedless grapes... It's more than 300 miles to the closest climate in which they could be expected to survive the winter.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I could have sworn reading about NativeSeeds/SEARCH expanding and were going to be providing seed racks at Whole Foods or something along those lines, but now i cant find any info about it. I must have read about some other company or made it up. But seeing more seed racks with locally adapted seeds i think is a very cool idea. I know the smallest nearby greenhouse sells only seeds they have experience with, so maybe visiting the smaller greenhouses is a good idea.

I've been thinking that once i discover the best varieties that work for me i'm going to send seed samples to any local-ish seed libraries and possibly other local places. I also have been thinking about creating my own personalised list of my favourite seed sources. If i did make a list i would probably start with places that sell plants adapted/from the southwest region, then i'd add my favorite sources from canada, followed by a list of local farms that have the best seeds. Awhile back i was considering writing to all the local farms i could find that didn't have websites to see if they might want to collaborate, but i haven't done that yet.

[castanea]

Mar 8, 2012 19:04:43 GMT -5 Wood-N-Stake said:

Joseph it is not just your area, they sell poorly adapted seeds here as well. I have been searching for some time for adapted seeds. My choice is to look to Thailand, Thailand and India for varieties for here. I have even considered becoming a distributor. I currently do not have space to develop landraces, so must purchase.

Last year went to the local radio "experts" store and was sold middle America adapted varieties. At least some of the Asian seed companies say they like hot and humid or cooler, or dryer conditions. Unfortunately, word of mouth or experience is the only way to know. Oh, was sold all long day onion sets, last weekend went to the local big box, and there they were again, long day sets. At least they had short day bunches. Since I only grow for the family, don't need large Qty's.

I am also amazed how little most people know about climate and weather. When I lived in hot desert areas people were frying to grow the same grass and veggies they grow in the New England states. They didn't spend 5 minutes trying to evaluate their local conditions. And we have many experienced gardeners who think that zone 8 is the same everywhere you find it. Seriously, how smart do you have to be to realize that Las Vegas and the Willamette valley are a bit different?

[castanea]

The USDA used to do some pretty throrough recommendations for crop varieties in different states before Monsanto started producing varieties that grew perfectly everywhere:

www.seedweneed.com/table1.htm

In 1936 this is the corn they recommended for Utah:

Australian White Flint, Falconer Semident, Improved Leaming, Mercer Flint, Minnesota 13, Northwestern Dent, Pride of Saline, Reid Yellow Dent

[johninfla]

Mar 8, 2012 20:45:49 GMT -5 castanea said:

The USDA used to do some pretty throrough recommendations for crop varieties in different states before Monsanto started producing varieties that grew perfectly everywhere:

www.seedweneed.com/table1.htm

In 1936 this is the corn they recommended for Utah:

Australian White Flint, Falconer Semident, Improved Leaming, Mercer Flint, Minnesota 13, Northwestern Dent, Pride of Saline, Reid Yellow Dent

I love that chart....is there a similar chart for other vegetables?


Many folks here don't realize that Florida is a whole other world....zone 8 and 9 here are not the same as in other southern states! Heck some folks even think that Miami has the same growing conditions as Tallahassee! (Miami is almost 500 miles south of Tally.)

John

[12540dumont]

One of the best places for adapted plants is the local "Master Gardener's" Sale. They grow, peppers, eggplant, tomatoes and herbs, they have even had trees on occasion.

The one nearest where I live will be the last Saturday in March at 9:00 a.m. at History San Jose.

These folks regularly write about what grows in Santa Clara County and varieties specifically for here. They have a hot line to answer planting questions and a walk up desk where you can bring diseased plants, and get a quick response.

If you are a beginning gardener, they have lots of fun classes. www.mastergardeners.org/ California
www.ahs.org/master_gardeners/ the rest of the states & Eh? Canadians!

But, even they do not sell regional seeds.

The year of the great tomato disaster, I went to these folks and purchased tomato plants. It was an expensive lesson in why not to leave a nursery in charge of teenagers.

I still go, and sometimes purchase a couple of eggplants or peppers. Since they sell very healthy one - offs, I don't have to buy a 6 pack of a pepper that will light afire under the DS, when I only need one.

Last week Costco was selling 1 gallon tomato plants for $7.00 a pot.

I think I paid $2-3 a plant for Master Gardener starts.

Head Start Nursery is down the street from me. They will do a 200 tray trial for $20- $30. Of course that's 200 of the same variety. Very cool for something that's tedious to start. I sometimes take them difficult seeds and have them do a tray for me. When seeds need complicated treatments, they're great. They ship just about everywhere. This year I sent them capers to start. I wish I had sent them the TPS! Which is hogging space in the sprout house.


Here's a list of seed companies and where they are:
www.calseed.org/member_dir.html To me, these are all scarey seed companies, a dozen of these are in bicycle distance from me.