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Post by blueadzuki on Apr 17, 2012 12:25:39 GMT -5
Seeds is seeds to the seed companies... As long as it more or less looks like Sugar Ann, it will be sold as Sugar Ann. Growers like me that don't know that good peas have two pods per node will never know the difference. I was a bit miffed at my regional seed company last year... They sold me "Sugar Snap Pea", but approximately half the crop was some type of snow pea. Grumble, grumble. Well, I've aready mentioned the Chinese/American company that, without changing the packet, went from having thier snow peas be a (probably) old type with rounded brick red seeds (which did phenominally for me) to a wrinkled green seeded type (which pooped out without setting flower or pod 1) As for the hypothetical crosses. If you created a pea that was both dwarf and umbel, and both traits stayed as is, I imagine you'd get something along the lines of a rosette, with the flowers in a bunch at the top with very tight leaves with little space between them below. As for hypertendil+umbel, maybe a medusa pea, with a whole skirt of tendrils all stuck together right below the flowers, like lacework. It's a bit like the question I had recently about what would happen if your crossed a round fruited cucumber (like a lemon cucke) with a gherkin cuke (one that made a lot of little fruits instead of a few big ones) I imagine you get plants with numerous tiny spherical cucumbers. Could be a fun idea (I'd call them gooseberry cucumbers, but we already have a plant called that) |
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Post by templeton on Apr 17, 2012 20:08:52 GMT -5
Here's a Sugar Ann question, the peas I planted in the "First Snap Pea Planting" thread are all Sugar Ann from Fedco, they are just starting to flower and produce baby pods now. I'm noticing that over 50% of the plants have a single flower per node with the rest having two. It was my understanding that this trait was genetically controlled so what gives? Is Sugar Ann stable? Do I have mixed up seed? I'm thinking this through on the fly, so if I stuff it up, someone please correct me. I've also noted some anomolous flower number results. Both genetics and enviro factors are supposed to influence flower number. I grew out a purple podded and a snow last season - both were single flowered. But the F1 cross has alternate single and double inflorescences. Amongst some lines I grew out in tight mixed blocks (=environmental stress?) last season, I got single flowerers, alternate flowerers, patchy double flowerers, and consistent double flowerers. Acccording to the JIC pisum database there are two recessive genes controlling multiple flower number, fn, and fna. If either allele is homozygous, then double flowering results, if both recessives are homozygous, then multiple (>2) flowering should result. Doesn't explain the results I get, so my guess is that it's not straightforward domminant/recessive inheritance. But let's assume In the case of your Fedco sugar ann that it is straightforward. If that breeding line had been selected for snap-ness, with not too much concentration on flower number, then there might be some peas with Fnfn pairs slip through in there somewhere, whose offspring would give 3 singles and 1 double flower plants. Acceptable for a few generations probably, until the variety has too many singles in it. ...or they just mixed the batches up. ...or it really is genetically more complicated as I'm guessing... T |
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Post by templeton on Apr 17, 2012 20:13:13 GMT -5
And I've just checked Keen's biolumo pages - great work K,  I've just linked it on my blog, rather than try and replicate it - go there for a more comprehensive list of resources. T |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 17, 2012 21:17:47 GMT -5
From some of the crosses mentioned on Rebsie's blog i would speculate that Sugar Ann is indeed a dwarf.
But like everyone else has mentioned peas are peas to most companies, and so its probably easy to get something mislabeled. I grew out some peas labeled dwarf grey sugar from the seed savers exchange store, and i got some weird traits coming out. First the pods didn't look like the pods in the picture all that well, but most of them were inflated pods and only a few were constricted. They tasted really good though, so i think they were the right ones, but they had phenotype diversity though. It's also interesting to note that i thought the pods for dwarf grey were the sweetest of the five varieties i planted, but the seeds for dwarf grey sugar are mostly round, with maybe a few dimples, and speckled similar to golden sweet. So maybe there are different genes for sweetness/sugar in the seeds vs. the pods.
I'm thinking about doing taste tests for all the varieties I'm growing this year and to rate them all on a 10 point scale to compare them later.
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Post by templeton on Apr 17, 2012 21:55:39 GMT -5
Keen,
I'm sure there is a different gene or genes for pod sweetness. I'm growing out a lot this autumn, we must compare notes.
T
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Post by robertb on Apr 18, 2012 14:29:52 GMT -5
What umbellatum varieties do you have, Keen?
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 18, 2012 21:23:04 GMT -5
What umbellatum varieties do you have, Keen? These are the ones i have packets for and are suspected to be, but are not confirmed yet. I tried to provide spots for all of them this year. (No one probably has any interest in the pea list on my makeshift website, but i will try and edit it to include these when i get a chance). Salmon Flowered (the seeds you sent me Robert) Mummy-pea (NordGen NGB100006) Mummy White (USDA GRIN PI 269779) Umbellata (USDA GRIN PI 269788) Umbellata (USDA GRIN PI 269787) Aa92 (USDA GRIN PI 269782) Aa94 (USDA GRIN PI 269784) |
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Post by robertb on Apr 19, 2012 4:49:24 GMT -5
If you have spare seeds at any time, I'd be interested, even if they aren't umbellate!
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 20, 2012 11:54:52 GMT -5
Wow you guys, it's going to take me a lot of sleepless nights to get through these web pages. This is terrific. Templeton, Andrew, I can't find hugs to send you so, I'll send a thanks and  |
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Post by DarJones on Apr 20, 2012 23:31:59 GMT -5
Be careful of Holly's hugs. She smothers you in.... Italian Comfort. DarJones   |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jun 5, 2012 20:08:14 GMT -5
This book is a bit dated, but it has some excellent info on the traits mendel worked with (including photos), but also other general pea breeding information. It was hard for me to read the PDF with my slow computer, so i bought a real copy of the book. I think it was worth it. archive.org/details/breedingmendelia12darb |
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Post by galina on Apr 25, 2015 16:46:24 GMT -5
And I've just checked Keen's biolumo pages - great work K, I've just linked it on my blog, rather than try and replicate it - go there for a more comprehensive list of resources. T Keen, I can't find these pages. Could you please add the url? Thank you |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 25, 2015 20:38:24 GMT -5
Hi galina, my website is currently down, but i will do my best to get it up and running soon..
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 25, 2015 21:06:29 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 26, 2015 0:05:02 GMT -5
Nice web page... I'll go ahead and throw a wrinkle into it... At least with the yellow podded pea that I started with, AA was present in the yellow podded peas, as demonstrated by them having purple flowers. The three genes responsible for magenta coloring in the purple podded peas are all dominant. The pea variety that I started out with was approximately homozygous for all three magenta color traits. Therefore in my project every F1 plant exhibited purple pods. |
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I've just linked it on my blog, rather than try and replicate it - go there for a more comprehensive list of resources.
