Long-term seed storage

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I tried searching for the old thread, but i can't seem to find it. Perhaps it was a sub discussion in one of the larger threads concerning growing food in case of large catastrophe scenario or something. In any case it probably wouldn't hurt to start a new discussion on the topic. The closest discussion i could find was Johno's thead, which does look like it has some great stuff in it:

alanbishop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=seedsa&action=display&thread=3725

Okay, so the last few days I've been thinking about better ways to store seeds in order to help prolong their germination and viability, with an aim of long-term storage. I found a nice link, which i will post below, which talks about several studies that were conducted. I didn't read through all of them, but it seemed to me while temperature and moisture content of seeds is important and has a large impact, it sounds as if one of the most dangerous things to seed health is exposure to oxygen. I assume because over time oxidation occurs and basically kills the seed.

The article talks about some potential other storage solutions, such as in argon gas, or a vacuum. I also remember someone (Johno? Atash?) talking about storing seeds in pure powdered charcoal or something? Something along those lines might work well as long as it removes as much oxygen as possible, but i cant remember the whole discussion. It would probably be fairly easy to buy a cheap vacuum pump and some valves and i could probably make my own vacuum jars, but filling the jars with something like charcoal sounded like it might be better.

www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/packing_your_own_food_storage/seed_viability/principles_and_practices_of_seed_storage_55-77.htm

[Joseph Lofthouse]

In my experience, the most critical aspects of long-term seed storage are mechanical and social...

Is the seed protected from mice?
Is the seed protected against insects?
Is the seed protected against extreme environments like high humidity and excessive heat.
Can I find the seed when I want to plant it?
Did the label stay on the container?
Did my woman or the kids throw the seed out?
Did I move unexpectedly and mistreat the seed?

Glass jars with steel lids are great for protecting against mice, insects, and high humidity. They don't help at all with temperature.

One of the nurseries I frequent has their seed display in the greenhouse, so they get constant high humidity and sunlight shines directly on the seeds. Seems like a horrid way to store seeds to me, so I don't ever buy seeds there.

I think that the viability estimates are exaggerated for most seeds. In other words, I think seeds stay good longer than what seed companies say they do: Even on supposedly fragile seeds like onion and parsnip.

[MikeH]

docs.google.com/open?id=0B4z8GE1bbsDjaHhyaDN6TXhoNm8

[davida]

May 9, 2012 14:36:05 GMT -5 keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) said:

I tried searching for the old thread, but i can't seem to find it. Perhaps it was a sub discussion in one of the larger threads concerning growing food in case of large catastrophe scenario or something.

I think you were thinking about the discussion in the Doomsday Challenge thread:

alanbishop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=banter&action=display&thread=5770

It has several posts about long term seed saving.

David

[circumspice]

I suspect that protection from pests, moisture & light are more important in preserving the viability of the seed.

I remembered reading an article about scientists actually germinating & successfully growing an approximately 2000 year old date palm seed. That seed & several others were found in an archaeological excavation at Masada in Israel. So, they were reliably attested to for provenance purposes. Then 2 of the seeds were carbon dated, providing further documentation as to the age of the seeds.

news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2008/06/12-01.html

Also, if I recall correctly, there have been one or more cases where ancient grain, found in Egyptian tombs was successfully germinated. But I don't believe they were able to grow out that grain. I think it might have been emmer.

[johno]

You can store seeds in wood ashes or diatomaceous earth to exclude oxygen and (most, all?) insects. I have gone from plastic zip lock bags to glass jars after reading an article by Greenzone in Heirloom Gardener magazine. Storing seeds in glass jars in a freezer is probably ideal, but this can take up a lot of room. I tend to do one or the other - seeds prone to insect damage go in the freezer as son as they are dry, typically, and the rest I put in glass jars.

Since I store them in the house (and I rarely leave), mice have never been a problem; but now that I've gone to glass jars, that's no worry at all.

I love to learn new things. I still make mistakes, but without trying new things, you never improve. Thanks for starting this thread!

[richardw]

i use a number of old broken down fridges to store all my seed which help keep temps relativity even while keeping mice out.

Its been one of my thoughts for while now about starting a lines seed from mainly the vegetables that have the shorter life spans such as parsnips and onions,ive already done one generation with Pukekohe Long Keeper that was 6 years old and i'll put some away and do it again in another 6 years,when i sowed that 6 year old seed the germination rate was down as low as 5-10% so i do think it could have gone an further season.
As for parsnips,ive got seed from two years ago, so in a years time i'll try sowing some and see how it germinates,if i still get a good strike i'll try again a year later.

So i think long-term seed storage is about good storage and selection

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Yeah, thanks for all the great replies. Lots of good information here. Yeah, okay the wood ashes sounds familiar and that's probably what i was remembering.

Aluminum and/or mylar sealed seed packets probably work really well too. Actually thats what the peas came in from Nordgen. They came is small aluminium sealed envelopes. It looks like you can order them and all you need is a vacum sealer with a heated edge. But it's nice to know about all the other options too.

www.usaemergencysupply.com/emergency_supplies/mylar_food_storage_bags.htm

[12540dumont]

Obviously the folks that sprouted the date tree were not farmers.
They had 3 seeds. They carbon dated 2 of them, making them useless for planting. That left them with one seed. If it's not a female date, it can't provide much in the way of genetics. They should know this year whether or not it was female.

Now, a farmer would have planted all 3, and carbon dated only the shell fragments after. So what if it was off a couple of hundred years? The tree's extinct.

If I had only 3 beans left. I sure as heck would plant all 3 of them.

Oh yeah, I store my seeds in a seed fridge in glass jars. I'll post a photo one of these days, when I'm in the barn with a camera. I use the fridge to store seeds I know that I'm going to use soon, and the freezer to store things that are less stable, like onions.

In my research about onions, what I discovered is that as they age, they get hairline fractures that mess with their ability to germinate.

[spacecase0]

here is the best long term seed saving guide I have ever seen
www.seedcontainers.net/a_guide_to_long-term_seed_preservation.html

after reading it I decided to store my seeds in canning jars with all the air removed,
label is inside the jar where I can see it from the outside,
and keep the jars in the freezer at -20F
I have had no loss in germination rates of any of the seeds so far.

[spacecase0]

here is the vacuum pump I use
www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html
and here is how I attached it to the canning jars
wide mouth jars
it seems not to let me link to the narrow mouth jar adapter...

[MikeH]

How long will seeds last?

Type of vegetable	Rough estimate of seed life
Beans	3 to 5 yrs +
Beetroot, chard & leaf beet	2 to 3 yrs
Brassicas (broccoli, cabbage, kale, brussels, turnips etc)	3 to 7 yrs
Carrots	up to 3 yrs
Courgettes & squashes	2 to 4 yrs
Cucumbers & melons	up to 10 yrs
Lettuces	2 to 5 yrs
Onions/leeks/spring onions	up to 3 yrs max
Parsley	up to 3 yrs
Parsnips	2 yrs max
Peas	3 to 5 yrs +
Peppers & aubergines	up to 5 yrs
Tomatoes	up to 8 yrs

Last year, with limited success, and this year, with more success, I've tried to wean myself of the habit addiction of saving every seed I came across. I've tried to focus on seeds that fit our vague game plan. So this year, I tossed out LOTS of seeds. Soul jarring but soul cleansing as well.

Then I started thinking about those that I had kept and why. They broke down into two categories: those that I planned to grow and those that I was growing. I asked myself why I was saving seeds of those plants that I was already growing. The answer was vague "you never know when you might need them". This led to the questions " how long will they last? & how often should I renew them?"

Of the above list, the only one that I can confirm is parsnip. One year is about it.

Anyone got any specific experience that confirms/rejects the above table guidelines?

[Joseph Lofthouse]

This chart seems adequate to me... So many seed longevity charts treat parsnips, carrots, and onions like they are some kind of extremely perishable item. I just don't see that in my garden. This spring I planted 2 year old seed from all three crops, and they grew great. They were stored in the garage, or in the cab of the truck. No special care was given to them.

[MikeH]

This - freshstor.com/ - looks interesting for using for seed storage especially if you used desiccant packs to absorb any moisture that got in.




The CVault is constructed of 18/10 food grade stainless steel; it is an airtight container that is impenetrable by light. Light weight and durable; this is "the ultimate storage solution container".

Lid Design:

• ¼ inch wide silicone seal to ensure an airtight seal.
  
• Top of lid can be written on with a NON-PERMANENT marker and relabeled as vault contents change.
  
• Pak holder specifically designed to hold your Boveda/Humidipak ®.
  

Latch Design: Engineered to provide an airtight seal; locking in product freshness.

Stackable: Buy multiples for different varieties; containers are stackable.

Interior :

Small - 3.25 " x 1.75" or 8 CM x 4.4 CM
Medium - 4" x 2.25" or 10 CM x 5.6 CM
Large - 4.75" x 2.5' or 12 CM x 6.5 CM
XLarge - 6.5” x 3.5” or 16 CM x 9 CM holds 1.5 liters

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Around here, I think I'd collect something like this:
www.topoutfitters.net/downloads/ammo%20cans1.jpg