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Post by rowan on Jun 24, 2012 2:11:12 GMT -5
With all teh dams around here with reeds in them, I doubt that anyone would be able to tell water chestnuts from the other.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jun 24, 2012 5:47:51 GMT -5
There's way more stealth crops than just Jerusalem artichokes and oca. I can't say anything about oca (yet ;o) but as for JA, I'll need a LOT of "TUMS" to eat with those in order to survive. I could probably lay down an assaulting platoon or two in the process! =o/
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Post by circumspice on Jun 25, 2012 3:47:03 GMT -5
I am very happy with the responses that this thread has gotten thus far! Everyone has made suggestions that are often made from personal experience, which makes those suggestions all the more valuable in my opinion. Nothing can compare to first hand experience. Of the many responses I have gotten, a few stand out because they made me rethink the somewhat hazy plan I have in mind. Because my 'plan' is somewhat formless & open ended, I can take what I am learning from the members of this forum and integrate the new ideas almost seamlessly, without having to scrap the whole thing & start all over from the beginning. I am so glad that I asked for your advise & opinions. My thanks go to mountaindweller for remarks that reminded me that nutrition actually breaks down to a very basic principal: We all need Carbs, Fats, Proteins, Vitamins & Minerals in our diet to survive & thrive. I had gotten into a rut, thinking only of individual plants, when I should have been thinking of what 'types' of food plants are needed that can provide the individual components necessary to sustain a healthy life. So I am now going to do a rethink & revise my plan. First, I need to do research, then identify, then locate & obtain these types of stealth food plants that will thrive in the climate conditions where I live. It's not going to be easy because most of us have become so accustomed to eating only those foods that are commercially available. I hate the thought of it, but we are losing knowledge of the wild foods that were consumed by our ancestors.  In summary: Please keep the ideas, suggestions & opinions coming folks!!!  |
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Post by macmex on Jun 25, 2012 12:17:26 GMT -5
Consider cowpeas. They're not exotic. But they are drought and heat resistant, trouble free and produce a decent crop. Years ago, when I received seed for Penny Rile, the donor told me that his family depended heavily on this cowpea to get through the Great Depression. They planted them, pulled the plants with dried pods, and hung them in the bard to shell out during the winter.
I've heard that cowpeas were a great help to the South, during the United States Civil War. They could grow and compete with brush, climbing over top. Northern troops, under orders to destroy all food sources, often overlooked the cowpeas. This left the South an important food source.
George
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Post by circumspice on Jun 25, 2012 17:22:19 GMT -5
Consider cowpeas. They're not exotic. But they are drought and heat resistant, trouble free and produce a decent crop. Years ago, when I received seed for Penny Rile, the donor told me that his family depended heavily on this cowpea to get through the Great Depression. They planted them, pulled the plants with dried pods, and hung them in the bard to shell out during the winter. I've heard that cowpeas were a great help to the South, during the United States Civil War. They could grow and compete with brush, climbing over top. Northern troops, under orders to destroy all food sources, often overlooked the cowpeas. This left the South an important food source. George Cow peas are the same as black eyed peas, right? If so, they would certainly grow well down here. Maybe I could tuck some in some brush, like you suggested. Thanks! |
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Post by Drahkk on Jun 25, 2012 20:05:52 GMT -5
Cow peas are the same as black eyed peas, right? If so, they would certainly grow well down here. Maybe I could tuck some in some brush, like you suggested. Thanks! Blackeyes may be the most well known, but they're just one variety among dozens, and not the best variety IMHO. Pinkeye Purplehull are pretty much a staple around here, along with Top Pick Brown Crowders when we can find them. Purplehulls are great to start with if you've never grown them before, as it's easy to tell when they're ready to pick. I'm trialing Black Crowders this year, which are easy to shell and make a nice rich dark pot liquor when cooked. If it's flavor you're looking for, White Wipporwill is great. But my personal favorite is Zipper Cream Crowder. Big peas crowded into long pods that are really easy to shell. At the fresh eating stage they're light green and taste about halfway between cowpeas and English peas. This article does a pretty good job of explaining the varietal groups. The only thing it doesn't mention is the Top Pick group, which are bush or semi-bush types that cluster their pods well above the foliage so they're easy to see and pick. MB |
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Post by mountaindweller on Jun 25, 2012 21:56:43 GMT -5
Aren't cowpeas only for hot areas?
I would suggest ducks. The eggs are more nutritious and duck tastes far better than chicken and it has more fat too, you don't have to fattem them up and lock them in.
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Post by steev on Jun 25, 2012 23:09:54 GMT -5
If one is concerned with what can be left after the foragers strip what they recognize, ducks are gone. Tulips and cattails are both decent sources of carbs, when dormant.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 26, 2012 7:00:03 GMT -5
Aren't cowpeas only for hot areas? . Mostly, but as with any vegetable, there is some variation in temperature tolerance. I have a black skinned, black eyed (I didn't find out that last bit until a pod fell off early and I saw seed thhat wasn't done ripeneing) cowpea that I planted from a bag of food sold cowpeas from Vietnam that does just fine for me up here in the north. Extending on the cowpea line, a part of me almost wants to suggest grasspea as a good stealth crop on the ground that 1. it can take even more drought stress than the cowpeas can and 2. with it's showy flowers, you could put it in the flower garden, where a hungry raider probably wouldn't think to look for food. And it's only supposed to be really dangerous if you make it a staple of your diet for a fairly long time. However that's the problem, if someone ate all the rest of your more visible food, that would be all that was left, so you would be eating a lot of it for a long time. In grasspea you would have a paradox, an emergency food you can only eat when there really is no emergency. If one is concerned with what can be left after the foragers strip what they recognize, ducks are gone. Possibly more gone than you think. I keep remembering reading somewhere about some technique someone came up with in the 1920's or 30's (I think) involving recordings of ducks and a variable speed tape player that not only would draw ducks in from miles but keep them from flying away, so that shooting massive numbers became easy. It's currently illegal (for obvios reasons) but I am sure that there are still people who know it, and in the event of collapse, would apply it (there are still tape recorders in the world, even if they are obsolete technology. And unless the collapse of civilzation automatically comes with an EMP, some of the current wireless tech is likely to stay functioning for long enough for someone to cobble together some way to do the same thing with MP3's) so in the absence of any authority who can stop them doing so, I imagine a lot of survivalist's will dig the idea out again, and all ducks, domestic or wild will become rather scarce. |
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Post by castanea on Jun 26, 2012 9:27:26 GMT -5
I haven't found Lathyrus (grass pea) to be a very vigorous plant or very drought tolerant. I'm sure there are areas where it grows well but I've had no luck with it at all. I've tried seed from numerous different sources with the same poor results. It's a slow grower after germination which means that anything- bugs, weather, weeds- will weaken or kill it, and even when established it hates temps over 90 degrees.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 26, 2012 10:53:54 GMT -5
Well, I'll defer to your firshand experiance; I haven't personally grown it for about 10 years and wont be trying again till nexy spring (got seed to late for this year) The strain I had 10 years ago did pretty well for me, but, as with a lot of my stuff that was a near wild version, so even though it was very pretty it would be too small seeded, to umproductive (and from a techical POV too poisonous) to be a viable food plant even if I did still have some.
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Post by macmex on Jun 26, 2012 12:35:52 GMT -5
I've collected cattail pollen and used it like flour. Yum! That is delicious! Muscovy ducks are the greatest protein producer I know. Under ideal conditions one pair could produce up to 45 offspring per year. Those 45 offspring would average about 6 lb, dressed weight, each. And, as was previously mentioned, the meat is fantastic. Their eggs are two to three times larger than chicken eggs. I love them. If someone tried to get all my ducks, during the nesting season, they might well miss one or two females, tucked away in odd places, incubating their eggs. I try to make sure that a number of friends and neighbors get into them, so if I lost mine, I'd know where to get them back. The Muscovy is a fantastic forager, snapping up flies and hunting everything from grasshoppers to small snakes and rodents. Carol Deppe has a cowpea which thrives in cooler temperatures. Here's a link to her web site. caroldeppe.com/I have grown them in Northern Indiana and New Jersey. I'd say they can produce anywhere you can grow tomatoes. But they truly shine in heat and drought. For heat and drought I'm experimenting with cluster beans (a.k.a. Gavar or Guwar or Gaur bean). I've been told they handle our extreme Oklahoma heat and drought. So far, that appears to be true. They could be very useful, as few would recognize them as a food crop. Here's a link to a discussion which gets into cluster beans. forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/okgard/msg0614052622590.html?11George |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jun 26, 2012 13:46:23 GMT -5
I've collected cattail pollen and used it like flour. Yum! That is delicious! Muscovy ducks are the greatest protein producer I know. Under ideal conditions one pair could produce up to 45 offspring per year. Those 45 offspring would average about 6 lb, dressed weight, each. And, as was previously mentioned, the meat is fantastic. Their eggs are two to three times larger than chicken eggs. I love them. If someone tried to get all my ducks, during the nesting season, they might well miss one or two females, tucked away in odd places, incubating their eggs. I try to make sure that a number of friends and neighbors get into them, so if I lost mine, I'd know where to get them back. The Muscovy is a fantastic forager, snapping up flies and hunting everything from grasshoppers to small snakes and rodents. Carol Deppe has a cowpea which thrives in cooler temperatures. Here's a link to her web site. caroldeppe.com/I have grown them in Northern Indiana and New Jersey. I'd say they can produce anywhere you can grow tomatoes. But they truly shine in heat and drought. For heat and drought I'm experimenting with cluster beans (a.k.a. Gavar or Guwar or Gaur bean). I've been told they handle our extreme Oklahoma heat and drought. So far, that appears to be true. They could be very useful, as few would recognize them as a food crop. Here's a link to a discussion which gets into cluster beans. forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/okgard/msg0614052622590.html?11George Guar requires a bit longer season than most of the US can produce (they grow a little commecially in Texas). If you're in the south, you might be able to pull it off, but more northernly and you'll be dancing the line each year as to whethere you can get good usable seed back ( I tried it last year, and the frost came around when the fist flush of pods were about 3/4 ready. and the fost came LATE last year.) But that does give me one other candidate, fuzzy bean ( Strophostles helvola or leonitas) no one will likely look at it as food, as it is a wild growing weed (at least around me) but it is edible both the roots and (maybe) the seeds. As a bonus it LOVES distubed ground, so it's not all that hard to find (around me there are patches of it along the railroad line) Actually it occurs to me that, in a real collapse situation, all that kudzu around could be a lifesaver. the leaves have vitamins, the roots have starch it's hypervigor means you aren't likely to eat it to death in one season, and no raider is going to beleive that something they have gone to such length to get rid of is now something they should be embracing. |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jun 26, 2012 14:08:49 GMT -5
I'm growing some cowpeas for the first time this year. I'm trying some "fagiolino dolicho di veneto" which are supposed to be short season and triple purpose, snaps, shellies, and dry depending on when you harvest them. They definitely germinate really fast, it was neat to watch them, I didn't know they had hypogeal germination like P. vulgaris.
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Post by castanea on Jun 26, 2012 19:38:49 GMT -5
I've collected cattail pollen and used it like flour. Yum! That is delicious! Muscovy ducks are the greatest protein producer I know. Under ideal conditions one pair could produce up to 45 offspring per year. Those 45 offspring would average about 6 lb, dressed weight, each. And, as was previously mentioned, the meat is fantastic. Their eggs are two to three times larger than chicken eggs. I love them. If someone tried to get all my ducks, during the nesting season, they might well miss one or two females, tucked away in odd places, incubating their eggs. I try to make sure that a number of friends and neighbors get into them, so if I lost mine, I'd know where to get them back. The Muscovy is a fantastic forager, snapping up flies and hunting everything from grasshoppers to small snakes and rodents. Carol Deppe has a cowpea which thrives in cooler temperatures. Here's a link to her web site. caroldeppe.com/I have grown them in Northern Indiana and New Jersey. I'd say they can produce anywhere you can grow tomatoes. But they truly shine in heat and drought. For heat and drought I'm experimenting with cluster beans (a.k.a. Gavar or Guwar or Gaur bean). I've been told they handle our extreme Oklahoma heat and drought. So far, that appears to be true. They could be very useful, as few would recognize them as a food crop. Here's a link to a discussion which gets into cluster beans. forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/okgard/msg0614052622590.html?11George Good information on cluster beans. I have a pack of seeds. I may try to plant them this year. The problem with duck meat is that it tastes like ducks! My wife will eat almost anything, from squid to fish eyes to snails. She will not eat duck meat. |
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