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Post by Al on Jan 26, 2016 2:50:35 GMT -5
Alliums definitely able to respond & change over the years according to different conditions. This is not evolutionary change of genes but some kind of alteration of gene expression, & changes may take several years to become apparent. A multiplier onion I grow (Perutile?) forms clumps of chive-like leaves if undisturbed. But if lifted & spaced out it bulks up, if repeated for several years clusters can appear like small shallots. Eventually occasional flowers may appear.
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Post by steev on Jan 26, 2016 3:47:32 GMT -5
I'm wondering why alliums would be different from other crops in being planted in the same place.
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Post by Al on Jan 26, 2016 6:29:08 GMT -5
I'm sure all species differ in gene expression over several generations, including humans. Alliums are just specialists in shifting into differing phenotypes / habits including vegetative propagation of different types depending on prevailing conditions over a lengthy period. A population of plants & bulbs are canny enough to hedge their bets, only a few will display variation in growth habit in each year. E.g. Bigger, smaller, more or less division, seed production, top setting, dormancy, evergreen, bulb forming etc. Certain species; e,g. Brassicas, canines, alliums, do seem to have great plasticity. Successful strategies do not necessarily reflect changes basic genetic code, though clearly evolution / genetic evolution does lead to speciation eventually. I'm no authority on this though & I'm sure this field is probably a minefield of controversy (Lamarckism v Creationism v Darwinism), epigenetics etc.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 26, 2016 12:51:34 GMT -5
I wonder how common transposons are in crops other than corn?
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Post by richardw on Jan 26, 2016 15:06:06 GMT -5
I'm wondering why alliums would be different from other crops in being planted in the same place. Could quite well be that the gradual changes/improvements i'm seeing has nothing to do with being planted in the same beds and has more to do with some of the points raised by Al and has pointed out ' Alliums are just specialists in shifting into differing phenotypes' this may also explain the appearance 'Amuri Red' though thats more a mutation. |
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Post by eastex on Jan 26, 2016 21:25:18 GMT -5
Well, got an email from the folks at koanga. Turns out they ant ship to the US unless I wanna pay like $60 in shipping and even then, there's a good chance it won't make it thru customs. Sucks.
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Post by ferdzy on Jan 27, 2016 9:05:04 GMT -5
I'm wondering why alliums would be different from other crops in being planted in the same place. I'm guessing the underlying explanation is fairly simple; we think of onions as being biennial but really they are perennials that start to flower in their second year. Being essentially perennial, they will have evolved much better tolerance to being in the same spot year after year than annual vegetables would. Over time this has been interpreted to mean they prefer it, and maybe there really are some benefits, I don't know. I rotate mine and they are perfectly happy with that too. |
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Post by richardw on Jan 27, 2016 23:10:41 GMT -5
I think i need to to do both, one lot tree onions as normal in there usual bed but i'll start a second batch that will be sifted about every year, i'll report back in about five years...so dont go anywhere.
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Post by richardw on Feb 24, 2016 3:27:44 GMT -5
Harvested the F2 clumps which i would have to say i'm very pleased with. Plans now to replant these again late winter and hoping they produce scapes  |
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Post by kazedwards on May 6, 2016 15:31:19 GMT -5
I saw today that my Walking onions have a few very large topsets on them. Last winter/early spring there was a very large onion that had divided. That is the plant cluster they are on. I also saw some flowers instead of topsets on several of the onions. Mainly the smaller ones. I wonder if it is from crowding? Here was the large cluster earlier in the year.  The topsets  Flowers  We will see if I can get some true seed. |
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Post by richardw on May 6, 2016 15:37:03 GMT -5
Did you remove bulbils from those heads kazedwards or are they just all flowers |
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Post by kazedwards on May 6, 2016 15:56:17 GMT -5
They are all flowers. I can see maybe 1 very small one. The flower/bulbil head had just split so I helped it along this morning. Here is a closer picture. What I think might be a bulbil is white and right above my nail on the bottom of base of the flower head.  I am very curious to see if they change color now that they are exposed like garlic flowers do. Also can't wait to see if they are viable. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 6, 2016 20:56:46 GMT -5
Flowers This is a pattern I see fairly frequently in my walking onions: A spathe with big bulbils in it opens up, and then it sends out another stem that is mostly flowers. |
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Post by kazedwards on May 6, 2016 23:07:33 GMT -5
I will have to look at the first spathes tomorrow.
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Post by kazedwards on May 7, 2016 10:34:38 GMT -5
There are two bulbils in the first spathe. I must have missed them being excited about the flowers
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