Grapes: interspecific hybrids

[mayz]

Belgium is just beyond the northern limit for the cultivation of Vitis vinifera. So traditional cv doesn't ripe under my climate. But in Germany there's active breeding research concerning the earliness and the resistance of the species of the genus Vitis. Several new interspecific hybrids have arisen from these breeding efforts such as Regent (red), Phoenix, Johanniter, Sirius, Bianca, Solaris,...

These hybrids have nearly 90% of the vinifera genetic background resulting in good winemaking abilities (aroma, level of sugar)

Is there similar breeding research in US? What are the results?

[12540dumont]

I have read of a place in Canada making Ice Wine.

And in Minnesota...they are working on cold hardy wine grapes.

www.grapes.umn.edu/

[mayz]

A pics of the first harvest in 2009 with Phoenix and without pesticide

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[mayz]

A 3 year-old grape before harvest

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[toad]

Interspecific hybrid Rondo is popular in Denmark, used commercially for wine. Good for red wine.

[samyaza]

toad : I didn't know grape could be early and cool weather tolerant enough to make wine as far North as Denmark

Grape breeding could be an exciting activity.

I heard of the wild species Vitis acerifolia a few years ago, and all its benefits over all the other wild species traditionally used for hybridation, but I didn't find anyone living in the Texas Panhandle who could take seed samples there

[mayz]

Aug 11, 2012 3:16:23 GMT -5 samyaza said:

I heard of the wild species Vitis acerifolia a few years ago, and all its benefits over all the other wild species traditionally used for hybridation, but I didn't find anyone living in the Texas Panhandle who could take seed samples there

According to the vivc web site www.vivc.de/an accession of V acerifolia would be maintained at Institut für Rebenzüchtung Geilweilerhof. You can try to obtain seeds or hard wood cuttings from that institute.

[Marches]

A lot of work is being done in the US with grape hhybrids as Vitis vinifera is totally disease prone east of the rocky mountains. Traditionally American breeders did mainly Vitis vinifera-Vitis labrusca crosses. These were more disease resistant and hardy, but a lot of negative traits are strongly dominant in labrusca including a funny aftertaste (called "foxiness") which actually led to hybrid grapes being banned for wine production in the EU (although some are now allowed if they approach vinifera in quality - very few of these feature much if any labrusca background though).
These vinifera-labrusca hybrids were also bred into table grapes and a few seedless varieties, which again usually came with a few flaws (such as mushy flesh, bitter, thick skins that slip away whilst eating and tight, fungus promoting clusters).

A few better vinifera-labrusca hybrids for eating are Lakemont, Vanessa, Venus, Himrod and Canadice. There are a few for wine too.

Breeders in the southern US bred with species such as Vitis aesitvalis which produced much better grapes such as Norton (quite a good wine grape). But although good, these came with a fatal flaw - aestivalis and many of those southern species were very hard to root from cuttings so never really caught on and most varieties died out. Sad really as the southern species are the most disease resistant.
Now those growers in the south were corresponding with the French breeders when phylloxera was at epidemic levels in Europe. The French breeders used two species in particular - Vitis rupestris and Vitis lincecumii. Their hybrids tended to feature a lot of Vitis rupestris that transfers good hardiness and disease resistance and roots well but doesn't pass on strange flavours too much (although it does sometimes produce "blackcurrant" flavours). Lincecumii doesn't root well but helped the hybrids grow in much of France's alkaline soils, but was kept low enough in hybrids to not impair rooting.
It is from these French hybrids that hybrids that could truly make decent wine were developed, and the newer German "PIWI" hybrids which are classified on paper as vinifera descend from these.
French hybrid varieties include Seyval, Villard blanc, Cascade, Aurore and Dattier St Vallier. PIWIs developed from French hybrids include Solaris, Phoenix and Regent.

Now back to the Northern US. Some breeders in the midwest needed even hardier grapes than the labrusca hybrids. They turned to Vitis riparia which is hardy down to -40c in some cases. Many are straight vinifera-riparia crosses, but most are riparia crossed with labrusca hybrids from the east coast.
But again these didn't usually produce good wine varieties, so added to the mix were French hybrids. So from that many great, super hardy wine grapes were developed such as Frontenac and this is the direction in which hybrid grape growers are mainly turning in the US - towards these riparia-French hybrid crosses.

Because the US has many species of grapes and so many diseases and pests associated with them as a result, in some cases some very localized hybrids have to be made. In Texas, Arizona and California they're working with Vitis arizonica to breed grapes that resist Pierce's disease (a infection that kills grape vines spread by an insect). Very few species are resistant.

Another class of hybrids are the more recent French hybrid-labrusca ones. They're an improvement over labrusca-vinifera hybrids and are very well adapted to the Eastern US. The university of Arkansas is very active in breeding them and has released a few such as Jupiter which are excellent as table grapes. They're still few and far between though.

Back to Europe again - the Soviet Union and communist states looked to Russia's own wild grape - Vitis amurensis for resistance and hardiness. They found it had some resistance to downy mildew and some hardiness and bred vinifera-like flavours in F1 crosses. However the disease resistance was not great and hardiness was often passed on poorly to hybrids, so focus shifted to crossing French hybrids and French hybrids with amurensis. Most eastern european hybrids tend to be these. Some excellent varieties for both wine and eating are found in Russia.
But in the Baltic the cool summers and cold winters meant that not much would work. Here breeeders mainly turned to labrusca and amurensis.

In more recent times the Germans began breeding with hybrids, mainly French hybrids and some amurensis. They produced some very good results such as Solaris, Regent, Phoenix and Rondo and classified them as vinifera and so able to be used commercially to produce wine.

-----------------------------------------

So that's a basic overview anyway. It's a very complex subject. I'm a grape breeder myself. In most of Europe I think French hybrids, PIWIs and the amurensis-French hybrid stuff is probably best suited. French hybrids adapt to many climates, Seyval especially and are very disease resistant and fairly hardy and some early enough for northern climates. Amurensis crosses are usually very early too.
Labrusca hybrids are often found being sold by garden centres and such to home growers, but to be perfectly honest I don't think they have much of a future and they're not widely adopted yet. Better quality is available from the other hybrids and I'm breeding with them for earliness for cool climates such as the UK.
So to sum it up - for both wine and eating grapes in northern Europe the French hybrids and the PIWIs based on them along with amurensis hybrids are the key.

[Marches]

Here in England hybrids grown for wine are Seyval (French hybrid), Solaris (PIWI), Rondo (PIWI), Regent (PIWI), Phoenix (PIWI), Cascade (French hybrid), Triomphe d'Alsace (French hybrid), Leon Millot (French hybrid) and a few others.

Hybrid vines often found in garden centres for the general public are all of the above plus Lakemont, Himrod and Boskoops glory - all labrusca hybrids.

[Marches]

Grape species in breeding brief pros and cons -

Vitis vinifera - pros -
*Fine quality
*The standard for wine and table grapes
*Seedlessness in table grapes is derived from vinifera
*Grow in many climates

Cons -
*Not very hardy
*Not very disease resistant
*Difficult to grow well in cold climates or areas with cool summers


Vitis labrusca - pros -
*Good level of hardiness
*Large fruit
*Many colours
*Disease resistant
*Grows in cooler and colder climates
*Some great, complex flavours ranging from strawberry to blueberry like and Concord flavours.

Cons -
*Usually transfers thick, bitter skins that slip off to hybrids
*Can transfer a weird foxy aftertaste
*Flavours in hybrids are usually lacklustre and unsuited to wine
*Not tolerant of alkaline soils
*Hybrids can sometimes have a messy growth habit
*Clusters tend to be very tight and so prone to fungi

Vitis riparia - pros -
*Hardiest grape species
*Can breed vinifera-flavoured hybrids when crossed with vinifera
*High sugars
*Adapted for short seasons
*Adapted to a range of soils
*Some are adapted to short, cool seasons and so produce early hybrids

Cons -
*Small berries are strongly dominant in hybrids
*Small clusters are strongly dominant in hybrids
*Acidity is high and is strongly dominant in hybrids
*Usually has a herbaceus flavour that is sometimes transferred to hybrids.

Vitis rupestris - pros -
*Quite hardy
*Very disease resistant
*Grows in a wide range of soils
*Drought tolerant
*Produces vinifera-like flavours in hybrids
*Doesn't produce small clusters or small berries dominantly in hybrids
*Hybrids have normal, even large clusters and normal grapes
*Produces useful hybrids in just a few generations, often in F1s

Cons -
None

Vitis amurensis - pros -
*Hardy
*Grows well in cool and cold climates
*Grows at lower temperatures than other grape species (~7c for amurensis, ~8c riparia, ~10c for everything else)
*Produces vinifera-like flavours in F1s
*Doesn't usually transfer its own strawberry-like flavour to hybrids
*Some resistance to downy mildew in Europe

Cons-
*Hardiness can be quickly lost in hybrids, although they're still usually hardier than vinifera
*Buds early so can get hit by frost
*Not resistant on its own roots to phylloxera
*Not resistant to downy mildew in the US where more virulent strains exist and some breeders say can be worse than vinifera there.

[blueadzuki]

Know anything about the native Chinese wine and table grapes. I only know they exist, and that there has been some grape wine production there for millennia. I don't even know what the species of them are, just their common names (the ones I have heard most about are Dragon's eye, Chicken Heart, Cow's Nipple and some sort of table grape called "The Pearls of Jiaobu" that is apparently so loved that bunches are often wrapped up in presentation boxes and sold for thousands of dollars.) I get the impression the wines are not considered all that good, given that most of the better Chinese wines either use a mix with European strains (there are apparently a lot of Reisling vines in Northern China; a leftover from some German missions that were set up there in the 16th century)or JUST European grapes. I actually have a bottle of Great Wall (a wine made of only the dragon's eye grapes) Someday I'll have to try it (the cousins who brought it back for me did, and said it was terrible, which is why I haven't)

[Marches]

Jan 1, 2015 20:23:38 GMT -5 blueadzuki said:

Know anything about the native Chinese wine and table grapes. I only know they exist, and that there has been some grape wine production there for millennia. I don't even know what the species of them are, just their common names (the ones I have heard most about are Dragon's eye, Chicken Heart, Cow's Nipple and some sort of table grape called "The Pearls of Jiaobu" that is apparently so loved that bunches are often wrapped up in presentation boxes and sold for thousands of dollars.) I get the impression the wines are not considered all that good, given that most of the better Chinese wines either use a mix with European strains (there are apparently a lot of Reisling vines in Northern China; a leftover from some German missions that were set up there in the 16th century)or JUST European grapes. I actually have a bottle of Great Wall (a wine made of only the dragon's eye grapes) Someday I'll have to try it (the cousins who brought it back for me did, and said it was terrible, which is why I haven't)

Not much about Chinese Vitis is known in general to be honest. China has many species like America, but few have ever been used for what we in the west use grapes for - wine and eating, most were used for herbal medicines at best.
Some like Vitis thunbergii were used in the past for wine and eating though, thunbergii was apparently being made into wine in China before vinifera arrived there.

With regards to disease resistance, there is some resistance to downy and powdery mildew even though these come from North America. It is probably due to similar pathogens perhaps existing in Asia, so these Asian Vitis just happen to be resistant as a consequence. The resistance varies and isn't as high as North American species but is typically good enough for the less virulent forms of downy and powdery mildew in Europe.
Vitis amurensis and coignetiae are known to have downy mildew resistance, Vitis davidii and Vitis romanetii have some resistance to powdery mildew. The main species used in breeding are amurensis in China where it confers hardiness and has enabled wine growers to expand north and coignetiae in Japan where the hybrids are resistant to cracking and disease. Other than that, few of the species are used, davidii sometimes as an ornamental and so little is known about them, especially in the west where they're largely absent from breeding (with the exception of amurensis).

I can't really tell you much more about them as I haven't used them much (except amurensis and coignetiae). Those wines could possibly be from amurensis hybrids.

[blueadzuki]

I suppose that means that Dragon's eye is probably a thunbergii

[blackox]

I had no idea that there are so many different species of grapes. Being so close to the Great Lakes I would assume that I would be in a good grape-growing area. I've never managed to get much of a crop from grapes, and anything that I can get usually ends up being of mediocre quality. Perhaps my problem is that I'm only trying Vitis vinifera grapes?

[Marches]

Jan 3, 2015 13:24:34 GMT -5 blueadzuki said:

I suppose that means that Dragon's eye is probably a thunbergii

Looker it up, it's made from a 800 year old vinifera variety apparently.
www.decanterchina.com/en/?article=804