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Post by mnjrutherford on Nov 10, 2012 18:04:28 GMT -5
Mankind would not have survived for 7000 years if they had not "prepped" to varying degrees. It's more a mind set and lifestyle.
I've been giving this a LOT of thought lately. I want to read the rest of the thread before saying anything else. Maybe I can avoid putting my mouth in my foot accidentally... ;o)
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Post by circumspice on Nov 10, 2012 20:05:52 GMT -5
Mankind would not have survived for 7000 years if they had not "prepped" to varying degrees. It's more a mind set and lifestyle. I've been giving this a LOT of thought lately. I want to read the rest of the thread before saying anything else. Maybe I can avoid putting my mouth in my foot accidentally... ;o) Hey Jo! Welcome back! Where have you been? I was beginning to worry a little. |
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Post by synergy on Aug 24, 2013 15:48:17 GMT -5
Okay I have come back to this thread for a re read. Watching Geoff Lawtons videos , a course on Climate Change from U of BC and one from U of Melbourne and countless articles read in the last year convince me my anxiety is rational , that my body is telling me to take heed . I am taking notice and reading up and following everything I come across that is prepper oriented. I am getting this feeling of being a deer in the headlights, some days I am cripplingly anxious and being on the farm I put my head down and work through it but last time it was three weeks , everyday being in a cold sweat that I am doing the wrong thing and not doing enough . Maybe I am crazy as my perception is that these threats are more immediate and I am more vulnerable than other people see them. I know more permaculture and gardening folks are in a sense embracing prepping but is anyone else feeling anxious like me that the threats are more omnimous than most people are taking seriously ? Even as I recognize myself as being hyper sensitive to things I am perceiving as negative , I see other people as almost psychopathic that they carry on making choices for convenience over all else , complacent, choosing to be oblivious. This view have observing others does not help my anxiety as I trust very few people . I honestly wonder if I am not completely sane and somehow we have bred some sort of mental illness into our race , a disregard for life and a hunger for gain/progress/money/convenience/power at all costs which is how I am seeing people make choices , do they feel so empty internally that material gains are everything ? Does anyone else struggle with thoughts like this ? I have been doing bible study and I am not trusting in that either .
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Post by raymondo on Aug 24, 2013 17:45:32 GMT -5
I've felt this way for a long time synergy. Despite this, I try to live as if we will get through any hard times and all will be well. That's all I can do. I don't want to do it alone though. Self-reliant, yes, but community-sufficiency rather than self-sufficiency, if that makes sense. I am involved as I can be in my local community - supporting our local farmers' market, working in the local community garden, working on local land care projects (revegetation of wild spaces), supporting local energy independence initiatives etc. I also share my produce with my neighbours where possible. These are all small things but they help me to cope with it all.
I don't believe government is capable, at least not at present, of doing anything to change the direction we are heading. We each have to do it our own way and remain engaged in the community around us.
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Post by MikeH on Aug 25, 2013 5:00:50 GMT -5
Okay I have come back to this thread for a re read. Watching Geoff Lawtons videos , a course on Climate Change from U of BC and one from U of Melbourne and countless articles read in the last year convince me my anxiety is rational , that my body is telling me to take heed . I am taking notice and reading up and following everything I come across that is prepper oriented. I am getting this feeling of being a deer in the headlights, some days I am cripplingly anxious and being on the farm I put my head down and work through it but last time it was three weeks , everyday being in a cold sweat that I am doing the wrong thing and not doing enough . Maybe I am crazy as my perception is that these threats are more immediate and I am more vulnerable than other people see them. I know more permaculture and gardening folks are in a sense embracing prepping but is anyone else feeling anxious like me that the threats are more omnimous than most people are taking seriously ? Even as I recognize myself as being hyper sensitive to things I am perceiving as negative , I see other people as almost psychopathic that they carry on making choices for convenience over all else , complacent, choosing to be oblivious. This view have observing others does not help my anxiety as I trust very few people . I honestly wonder if I am not completely sane and somehow we have bred some sort of mental illness into our race , a disregard for life and a hunger for gain/progress/money/convenience/power at all costs which is how I am seeing people make choices , do they feel so empty internally that material gains are everything ? Does anyone else struggle with thoughts like this ? I have been doing bible study and I am not trusting in that either . Ok, you made me re-read the thread all in one go. The thread's not all that disturbing and has lots of good info in it. Notwithstanding, I think that tough times are coming. Knowing what to do and where to start is difficult. I spend no time at the doom and gloom sites because you have to wade through immense quantities of wailing, gnashing of teeth, politics, religion, etc. I spend little time following the news since it doesn't offer solutions only more distress, depression, and paralysis. And I spend no time anymore worrying about why people seem oblivious because it doesn't help me deal with the problem. As for governments & politicians, enough said. For me, trying to find a rational explanation to an irrational situation or behaviour is generally time wasted. So where do you start? Grow healthful food in a viable, robust and regenerative way. Grow food that stores or can be canned until the next harvest. Focus on nutrition - calories, vitamins and minerals. Start canning even if you aren't growing all your own. You learn a lot quickly. Lettuce may be nice but it doesn't keep so don't grow greens. Want greens? Try lambs quarters. Far less work and no bolting. Canning/drying food when it's all coming through the door at the same time is a challenge. Use hand tools in the kitchen. Make sure they're durable. Save seed. Keep it viable by growing it out every few years. Grow fertility and compost since you can't be sure that you'll have animal manure. Learn about compost teas and grow your own inputs of comfrey and stinging nettle. Learn about mycorrhizal fungi and how to produce your own for transplant purposes. Use hand tools in the garden. They'll teach you how to garden smart using intensive planting techniques. Learn how to propagate plants. If you have a hazel seedling that displays hybrid vigour, you need to know how to clone it. Barter what you grow and what you know about growing. This builds community and inter-dependencies. Plant as many different fruits, nuts, herbs as you can. Naturalize where you can. I don't particularly like Jerusalem artichokes but I have them growing in two or three different places on the property where I don't care too much about how big the patches get. Learn how to graft and swap scion wood to keep your costs down. Plant as many types of medicinal herbs as you can even if you don't plan to use them right now. Have the reference material on how to use in your library. www.henriettesherbal.com/ is a good start. Try and get them to naturalize. Encourage weeds when they don't compete directly with you for food so that you build insect and animal diversity. Keep it simple and try to avoid technology dependencies where you can. I can understand why growers use season extenders but I don't use them because I don't want to be dependent on something that I might not have. So I end up growing only plants that can survive with little or no outside inputs. Plant for the future. We've planted stands of black walnuts, butternuts, red maples, silver maples, and sugar maples that we'll never see a yield from. Someone else will. Knowing that is our return. Plant edible hedgerows at the edges of your property. Share your knowledge and teach where you can but be aware that people will be at different places on the path. Some will move along the path, many won't. Reaching out builds community in a direction that will be important - mutual support and cooperation. Sometimes the seed will sprout, sometimes it won't. I will eternally shake my head over the friends I have who grow open pollinated tomatoes and can them but don't save the seed. That has taught me not to push on a string. Once you start focussing on this kind of activity at this level of detail, then the shit around you is less disturbing (most of the time). It doesn't go away but it doesn't constantly intrude. You might not be able to deal with climate change on a large scale but you might in your garden as a byproduct of your gardening efforts. Drought? Mulch, mulch, mulch. Don't have mulch? Plant grasses that produce lots of biomass and get a scythe. Capture and store water by slowing the runoff and causing it to soak into the ground and by using 1000 litre food grade "cubes" connected together to catch water off your roof. Too much rain?? Use raised beds and put in drainage. Too much sun?? Plant trees around your garden that provide dappled shade and fix nitrogen from the air rather than draw it from the soil. Too much wind?? Plant thick, dense shelter belts. Erratic spring weather?? That's a tougher nut to crack. Late frosts are one thing. Blankets, cloches, re-seeding will help. But excessive rain that delays planting is a problem. Bartering what your garden produces for what it failed to produce because of adverse weather during planting season is about the only way around that. But that's not so bad. One door closes; another opens.
The challenge is not letting the shit get to you. For me, getting my hands in the dirt, deeply in the dirt, is the solution to the shit going down. By doing so, you start to create your own path forward. Will it be sufficient? Who knows? Is it the right path? Yes because it involves food and water. Is the path being built properly? Probably, yes and no. Who knows? The satisfaction and enjoyment that comes from growing and eating one's own food pushes a lot of the problems into the background.
So much to do, so little time, so few hands - www.helpx.net/, www.workaway.info, www.wwoof.ca/Regards, Mike |
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Post by synergy on Aug 25, 2013 12:08:15 GMT -5
I think you are right Mike, I am better off keeping my head down and not looking at things that will rattle me and keeping busy , that is how I work through the anxiety .
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Post by davida on Aug 26, 2013 10:32:55 GMT -5
I think you are right Mike, I am better off keeping my head down and not looking at things that will rattle me and keeping busy , that is how I work through the anxiety . Exactly, this is the day that you have, have some joy and be thankful for this day. Because none of us are promised even one more day. Be thankful for the progress and knowledge that you have acquired and keep moving forward. |
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Post by richardw on Aug 30, 2013 15:58:16 GMT -5
I quite enjoy watching the 'Doomsday Preppers'on the Discovery channel mainly because i like to ridicule many that feature on it who i would call some what crazy,seems that many preppers are overly obsessed with amassing vast numbers of guns while paying less attention to there long term food security,even some of the doom and gloom concepts that some preppers come up with are totally laughable like an earthquake that will rip the US in half.But i have to say that i have thought hard about when the shit hits the fan,which it will at some stage,its about what i can do to not only help my family but just as importantly the community around me a whole even though most people never think about that there current lifestyle that we enjoy will one day come to an end. I often think what would happen if - We have pig farm 3km away with 40,000 pigs and what if there's no electric power to run the fences to hold them in there paddocks,what happens to them?,they will fan out ripping up what ever they can for food, my garden for one,i need a deer fences around my garden.I'm not so worried about the 2000 dairy cows within the same area ,they are so reliant on modern day agricultural drugs they would just get sick and die.i know longer term the many of the introduced animals to this country would build up to massive numbers,so at least getting enough protein wont be a problem. To grow food without electric power to pump water means having a walk to water supply or at least a hand pump,so ive started digging a walk in well with the material used to build another greenhouse,i have water at 6 meters at the direst time of year so a hand dug well is achievable .Ive planted lots of trees close by so i have fire wood but how do i cut the wood with out fossil fuel?,i need a two man hand saw. At the end of the day there's still more i need to do for myself and family before i feel we could 'get through' I really enjoyed your words of wisdom Mike and you make some very good points like- Grow fertility and compost since you can't be sure that you'll have animal manure. This is not hard to do because my garden has been 100% animal manure free for 12 years and yet i still manage to maintain good growth levels,its all about high legume turn over,i try for every second crop a legume of some kind. Use hand tools in the garden. They'll teach you how to garden smart using intensive planting techniques. This is me to a tee,i only use a shovel,rake,wheelbarrow and a hoe,though i do use a car&trailer to get pine logs for composting from time to time,to grow a large garden without the use of fossil fuel means intensifying the given area means planting in beds and not rows. |
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Post by steev on Aug 30, 2013 18:41:00 GMT -5
richardw: I'd count myself lucky to be in your circumstances. I think I'd want a shipping-container root-cellar and lots of salt for curing pork, a drying-shed, a smoke-house, and an animal-driven well-pump. If SHTF, in your place, I'd want to be set up to make salt pork, bacon, and prosciutto in quantity, while the materials were available; I think the offal would fertilize my garden very well. Hardened lard makes a good seal for containers of many sorts of cooked food. Manna from heaven on the hoof, those porkers.
Surely, it would only be kind to offer sanctuary to one or more of the "orphaned" cows; come to that, beef is beef (breasola, yum!), in a pinch. Should they recover actual health away from confinement, aided by food for which they are really fit, couldn't hurt.
Prosciutto or breasola and melon; what shit?; life is good!
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Post by richardw on Aug 31, 2013 0:35:02 GMT -5
Yes i know and i really am thankful to be living in an area which has such benign climate that we are virtually guaranteed of crop harvests,unless that is we were over run with pigs,also one problem steev,i cant eat pork fat as it makes me throw up,the misses works on that nearby pig farm and we get given a free pig every 6 weeks so i swap it for mutton with a few of my sheep farming mates,no point been a vegetarian around these parts .
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Post by steev on Aug 31, 2013 1:05:57 GMT -5
Mmm; lamb. Not so good for bacon, etc, but mighty fine.
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Post by raymondo on Aug 31, 2013 2:50:35 GMT -5
Mmmm...pig and lamb...my two favourite animals for decorating the dinner plate!
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Post by MikeH on Aug 31, 2013 6:46:59 GMT -5
Ive planted lots of trees close by so i have fire wood but how do i cut the wood with out fossil fuel?,i need a two man hand saw. We have 7 acres of woodscrub lot but it's all downhill from the house so it would be interesting to say the least. Two man, now there's an idea whose time will come again. With the first woofer we had this summer, I suddenly understood the concept of the hired man: he didn't have land so he exchanged his labour and skills for 3 meals and a roof over his head. We've never had woofers before but they are fantastic. We've had two so far, the first, a Canadian, for a month and the second, a German, for two weeks and we'll have three more before the season ends, an American couple followed by another German. If the next three are like the first two, we will have gotten a lot done in opening up our woods. It's the only way to dedicate huge blocks of uninterrupted time to projects and get them done in a short time. And they are a fresh perspective on what you are doing. Regardless of their level of knowledge, you learn. Fresh conversation stimulates new ideas. We've really started to focus on soil fertility from a number of perspectives: - We planted a small test patch of miscanthus giganteus this summer. From rhizomes, it has grown to six feet in its first year and the summer is not over. When dry, it's woody so we plan to chip it for mulch. I also plan to pile it unchipped mixing it with grass to create large compost piles. Cutting will be interesting; I'll use an electric hedge trimmer but I'll also experiment with a bush scythe, a machete, and bypass loppers.
- Earlier this summer, I inoculated half the patch with water soluble mycorrhizal fungi that I got from Paul Stamets' company. Within two weeks, I could see a 20-25% difference in height. The research that I've done on mycorrhizal fungi has convinced me that this is a critical part of fertility, plant health, and drought compensation so now I have bahia grass growing in pots that have been inoculated. I'll let it winter kill and then use the pot contents as inoculant for everything we plant from now on. I'm also trying it with oats since bahia grass isn't something I can produce seed from here. We've also been inoculating all the fruit and nut trees that we've planted to date.
- Our raised beds contain finished vegan compost so we had a bit of time before fertility needed to be replenished. This is the first year that we grown fertility in the beds. The beds where Joyce will plant her garlic later this fall are all covered in buckwheat. We'll chop and drop, leaving the roots to decompose and she'll plant into it the green mulch. This coming spring when it's still too cold to plant, we'll sow bush peas and then scythe them down and plant starts into them. Other beds will be planted in a succession of peas and buckwheat as part of a rotation. Parts of the plantings will be allowed to go to seed so that we have seed for next year.
- We planted Dutch white clover on top of a small berm that is part of the willow bed out in the orchard. We had another dry though not drought summer so it needed watering every three days to establish. When we were watering, we weeded out the lambs quarters and docks that quickly started to populate the initially bare soil. Now it's a thick mass with hardly any interlopers. It's so thick that I'm going to prepare another area. I want to see if I can plant tomatoes into a living mulch that fixes nitrogen and has been inoculated with mycorrhizal fungi. I also plan to try transplanting some perennial rye and perennial wheat into it as well. We'll also experiment with killing the clover by smothering it with mulch. If that works, we'll plant large areas in Dutch white clover as a hedge against needing more land in cultivation. The clover will keep the weeds under control, the bees will have a steady supply of nectar and pollen all summer long, and the soil will have nitrogen available to it when needed. A healthy mycorrhizal fungi population will thrive undisturbed.
- We've done some brutal subdividing of a Bocking 14 comfrey plant and planted 40+ offspring into the orchard. It's done really well and we have a huge bumblebee population this year as a result. I've found one nest and I think that there's at least one more. They are all over the everbearing golden raspberries and we'll have a really good harvest from them this fall. It seems that growing fertility also grows pollinators. I'm going to plant a long row of Bocking 14 in a bed of Dutch white clover which will benefit the Bocking 14 and continuously harvest the Bocking 14 for mulch and to make tea for soil drenches.
Yep, as soon as you start to work with hand tools only, you start to look at what you are doing in entirely different ways. The calories received versus the calories spent ratio becomes very important. We do use a riding mower and have a large lawn but it's a source of mulch for the raised beds. But we're moving away from it. The orchard has not been cut once this year although we will be selectively scything parts of it where there is a large amount of Queen Anne's Lace that we don't want to go to seed and possibly become dominant. We plan to convert parts of the lawn to perennial alfalfa which can be scythed for mulch/compost and Dutch white clover to create a lawn that doesn't require mowing. Added: Hmmmm, with the possible, perhaps likely introduction of GMO alfalfa, sainfoin is probably a better idea. |
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Post by richardw on Aug 31, 2013 14:31:53 GMT -5
'I like that term 'vegan compost',not sure my compost would qualify given the amount of egg shells that are added.
Did you plant the Queens Anne Lace Mike or had it been there already?,ive set myself a 2km limit where if i see any on the sides of the road i grub it out,i dont want it anywhere near my place
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Post by raymondo on Aug 31, 2013 15:16:32 GMT -5
I don't know whether Dutch White Clover is smotherable with mulch but peas certainly are. When bringing a new bed into cultivation, I've sown peas thickly then dumped a layer of straw on top when they were about 15cm high. It worked well. I'll be watching with interest to see what happens with you clover experiment Mike.
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