|
|
Post by mountaindweller on Jul 23, 2012 22:08:47 GMT -5
I must admit that I still buy most of my seeds and the rest I save I don't use all these scientific methods suggested. I am simply not a person who would stick to methods or keep records of each and every plant, but I want to save more of my own seeds. There are some obstactles:
1. If you harvest a bed and then replant it you always must work around the plants you save the seeds from, are there plants you transplant into an extra bed? It is very tempting hoeing these plants out of the way.
2. Do you hand pollinate? Or do you still get good enough results if you don't (i.e. curcubits)?
3. I thought I would simply stick to one variety of each species, but when it comes to the cabbage family that becomes difficult. For example the oleraca group has broccoli and kale and some other things I want.
4. How could you select for taste? If you harvest tomatoes for a sauce they would have to come all from the same bush. On the top you cook different all the times (and sometimes not so good). That is worse with vegetables you store like pumpkins.
I want some ideas how to keep this seed saving business nice and sweet, with minimal record keeping, building cages, hand pollinating and all that fuss. Is this possible? I would rather buy seeds some more years and find out which varieties do well here and start saving seeds little by little.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 23, 2012 23:20:12 GMT -5
I am meeting almost 100% of my seed needs through seed saving. It's a lot of work, but it sure is satisfying to see how my own seed thrives because it has been locally adapted to my garden. I'd rather work to grow seed than work to get money to buy seed.
Scientific method is not required.... People were saving seeds for 10,000 years before science was invented.
Record keeping is not required.... Plants have been reproducing for billions of years before people started keeping records.
I have never been tempted to hoe out a crop that is being saved for seed... For the most part in my garden I only get one chance at a crop, so I don't worry about recycling beds. In many cases, the seed harvest corresponds with the harvest of the crop, or is only one to three weeks behind. I find it helpful sometimes to transplant things into a different bed. This is particularly useful for root crops and is almost required for standard biennial seed production. The stress of transplanting will often encourage them to flower even if they are presumably biennials.
I have never used an isolation cage or bagged a blossom. I do not hand pollinate if my only purpose is saving seed for next year. The only time I hand pollinate is if I am trying to introduce a trait from one cultivar into a different cultivar.
The seed of many species is long-lived. You could grow seed on a rotating basis, every 3-5 years. You may be able to separate flowering times. For example collect kale seed in the spring from last year's stalks, and grow broccoli seed in the fall from this spring's plants.
It is easy to select for taste in tomatoes... Harvest the patch, cut the fruits open, taste them, and save seeds from anything that tastes good. Use the less tasty ones for making sauce. I know it sucks to always be eating seconds instead of the finest that your garden produces, but even my seconds and thirds taste better than any tomato that can be bought at the grocery store. You can cut off a piece of root, or take a bite out of a cob of corn on the stalk. Tie a ribbon around any plant that is particular tasty so that you can find it later.
Little by little is a great strategy for starting to save seeds.
|
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jul 24, 2012 1:05:17 GMT -5
So, this is how I do kale/broccoli/cabbage.
Year one I planted three 25 foot beds of each, about 50 plants.
I harvested all the broccoli and all the cabbage. No seed saved.
I used only 15 of the kale plants and let all the rest go to seed and saved the seed.
Year two I saved the seed of all but 15 broccoli and used all the kale and all the cabbage.
Year three I saved all but 15 of the cabbage seed and used all the kale and broccoli.
Now it's year 4 and I have my own seed of all 3 crops. So I'll branch out into another brassica seed saving adventure. When I start to get low on kale, I'll save that one again.
To get over the urge to hoe them, I consider them flowers and enjoy them as such. I also underplant them with something like lettuce or carrots or onions if I can.
My only fuss comes when it's harvest time for a major crop and the barn is full of seeds.
|
|
|
|
Post by mountaindweller on Jul 24, 2012 2:07:17 GMT -5
That sounds really better! Gardeners saved seeds before public school system, without knowing how to read and write. I could transplant these root crops into pots to save space, because we built a cage around the main veggie garden, there are too many hungry animals out there, so space is really a problem. I can eat tomatoes to test the taste but can you test broccoli in its raw stage? I like to grow wild carrot as a herb, so this would cross with normal carrots. Zuccinis and tomatoes can't be transplanted but maybe cabbages I could.
|
|
|
|
Post by templeton on Jul 24, 2012 4:51:18 GMT -5
you can use a few different options:
Don't try and save everything in one year. As Joseph says most seed keeps for a while - but be careful about saving seed eating bugs with them.
Most veges produce heaps of seed, so unless you need big outcrossing populations, a few seed plants tucked away somewhere is usually heaps.
Think about seed saving at planting time - unless you are doing selection, you can tuck a few seed plants out of the way, against a fence, or in a corner, or at the end of a bed where they won't block out a whole bed. If its just a variety like say snow peas, plant out your usual bed, but shove a half a dozen seeds somewhere else for seed production. They don't have to thrive, just produce enough seed for next year, so can be a bit sub-optimal.
Label stuff with permanent labels at sowing time - i use scissored strips of aluminium drink cans, write on with an old ballpoint which embosses the label, punch a hole, and tie it on the plant with a twist tie, or shove it in next to the plant. The label stays on the plant, gets picked with the fruit or pod, and shoved in the seed envelope or bag.
There are some things I haven't bothered with so far - squash, zucchini too many problems with purity, crosses, and waiting around for zucchs to mature for example.
Peas, beans, tomatoes, chillis, lettuce,parsley, eggplants not much of a problem. I grew carrots from only a couple of parent plants for 3 seasons, with no inbreeding depression.
And some times just let them go to seed, sow themselves, or just sprinkle them around and let them come up by themselves, esp lettuce and herbs. Enough, I'm rambling...
T
|
|
|
|
Post by raymondo on Jul 24, 2012 6:13:40 GMT -5
Record only what you need to know: vegetable name, cultivar name unless it's a mix and date seeds were harvested would cover a lot. You might also write the average longevity or the year in which you need to grow fresh seeds.
Think about storage too. That's an important part of seed saving if you are only going to regrow for seed every three to five years.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 24, 2012 8:35:43 GMT -5
Even if you eat the entire head from a broccoli plant, it will send up lots of side shoots that could be saved for seed. No need to taste the whole head though: The plant will continue to grow and flower if you cut off a tasting sample. You may write directly on the fruit or husk.   |
|
|
|
Post by 12540dumont on Jul 25, 2012 1:13:16 GMT -5
That sounds really better! Gardeners saved seeds before public school system, without knowing how to read and write. I could transplant these root crops into pots to save space, because we built a cage around the main veggie garden, there are too many hungry animals out there, so space is really a problem. I can eat tomatoes to test the taste but can you test broccoli in its raw stage? I like to grow wild carrot as a herb, so this would cross with normal carrots. Zuccinis and tomatoes can't be transplanted but maybe cabbages I could. No to the wild carrots. |
|
|
|
Post by mountaindweller on Jul 25, 2012 1:39:46 GMT -5
Wild carrot seeds are unobtainable in Australia.
There's actually one thing I would like to grow heaps of varieties (well actually more but then I can't save the seeds) that is beans.
|
|
|
|
Post by oxbowfarm on Jul 25, 2012 5:16:30 GMT -5
If you want no fuss, tomatoes and peppers are the easiest. Squash as well if you stick to just one variety per species. But hand pollinating squash is fun IMO. I'm doing a ton of it right now for Ray's pepita project.
|
|
|
|
Post by raymondo on Jul 25, 2012 6:02:17 GMT -5
Wild carrot seeds are unobtainable in Australia... Wild carrot is everywhere here on the Northern Tablelands. It's a pain in the butt! ...There's actually one thing I would like to grow heaps of varieties (well actually more but then I can't save the seeds) that is beans. I've got quite a few beans. What are you after? PM me. |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 25, 2012 11:18:20 GMT -5
There's actually one thing I would like to grow heaps of varieties (well actually more but then I can't save the seeds) that is beans. Depends on what you are after in a bean. I don't require my beans to be stable inbreds. I grow landrace pulses. There might be as many as a dozen species in my landrace. I started with around 100 cultivars. Sure there might have been some crossing, but beans is beans. |
|
|
|
Post by mayz on Jul 26, 2012 2:04:47 GMT -5
There's actually one thing I would like to grow heaps of varieties (well actually more but then I can't save the seeds) that is beans. I don't grow heaps of cultivars but I sow at least two varieties of beans every years. My beans are grown very close ones of the other ones. I save seeds since five years and I have never had cross between the various lines. I think that depends of the insects present in your country. ![]() |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 26, 2012 10:01:54 GMT -5
I think that depends of the insects present in your country. My potatoes have developed quite a following. I am growing potatoes that release a cloud of pollen when jostled, and the pollinators are liking that. |
|
|
|
Post by mayz on Jul 26, 2012 11:12:01 GMT -5
Sometimes I see bumblebees in the flowers of my beans. Are the bumblebees able to cross pollinate beans? I don't know it.
|
|
