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Post by cletus on Aug 6, 2012 12:42:51 GMT -5
Greetings all, big love to my fellow gardeners out there. I've been noticing this year how well holy basil reseeds itself in my temperate climate (7a Virginia). Such a wonderful beneficial weed, truly invigorating eaten fresh in the garden, and the insects love the nectar too. As far as I know, no other basil has this self-sowing quality in my climate. I have been haphazardly brushing the white sweet basil flowers on the pink holy basil ones. It would be cool to have a self-seeding sweet basil.
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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 6, 2012 17:25:21 GMT -5
Yes, O.sanctum seed is unusually hardy. Ive had one come up for me here in New York (6a or 6b depending on the year) after an unusually cold winter (so 6a). And that is indeed the only time I have had a basil re-seed itself naturally (one of my basils this year, (a lemon I think) is the result of a re-seeding as well, but as that happened indoors (so the resultaint plantlets had a winter inside on a radiator) that probably doesn't count.)
That being said, I am a little unsure of how sucessful a basilicum x sanctum cross would be, at least in making a self seeding sweet basil. I don't think basils genes are all that plastic. African blue basil is the only interspecific hybrid basil I can think of (Ocimum kilimandscharicum x basilicum) and that's sterile. Sactum and basilicum are a bit more closesly related (indeed some people thing sactum is the ancestor of basilicum) so the chances of a fertile cross might be a bit higher, but I would not say it is a 100% guarantee. I'm fairly sure you might get a plant, but, like african blue, the plant might be sterile.
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Post by cletus on Aug 7, 2012 18:25:05 GMT -5
Doh! I misspelled "Ocimum" in the thread title and this should be in the breeding section. Thanks for the info, blueadzuki. That is interesting that O.sanctum is a purported ancestor for basilicum. It wouldn't surprise me. Some more googling revealed that they are both naturally occurring tetraploids with 2n=48, so thats a good start. Another link mentioned a hybrid between O.gratissimum x suave, with partially fertile F1s, another cross I can't remember. I think with a little creative play my objective is doable. Until I get more controlled and documented version of this experiment, for now its just something else to do with the sweet basil flowers.
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Post by trixtrax on Aug 7, 2012 19:55:33 GMT -5
The columnar basils (the only one I can find anymore is Greek Columnar) are apparently hybrids between Ocimum basilicum and Ocimum americanum which is classed as a lemon basil, Ocimum × citriodorum. Greek Columnar also called Sweet Aussie, etc etc does make seeds in some cases if given enough time. But, generally I think your right blueadzuki most hybrids are sterile. Ocimum is basically a tropical Mentha and a look at Mentha and other mint family plants shows that plants widely hybridize but are not too often fertile  . I think crosses between O. basilicum vars and O. americanum vars could suss out some basils that are both fertile and much more winter hardy and disease resistant than what we have available.. |
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Post by cletus on Aug 8, 2012 23:36:08 GMT -5
That's a good thought trixtrax, that means O.americanum could play a part too. But I think O.sanctum could be at least semi-successfull too. Its definitely a worthy attempt. I can see why most breeders wouldn't have attempted it though as they wouldn't want the eugenol or whatever from O. sanctum messing with the culinary purity of basilicum. Whereas the lemonyness of O.americanum would be a more desirable blend with the culinary basil (the columnar thing is a pretty cool result too).
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Post by cletus on Aug 9, 2012 19:06:06 GMT -5
So today I went by my friend Rick's garden, who I got the holy basil from. He's been letting it self-sow in his garden for like 4 years. Since this thread I had been wondering about the genetic diversity of holy basil. Like 95% of the O.sanctum in his garden looked identical, with the typical leaf size 1/3 to 1/2 of most sweet basil varieties and nice little pink flowers. Then I noticed 3 at the edge of his path that looked different. I asked him to be sure and he said they all came from the one group of original seed. I will take pictures of them and post soon. Two of them had white flowers like O.basilicum, and thinner more pointed leaves than the other O.sanctums. The taste was really good! More pleasant fresh than the usual O.sanctum, slightly sweeter with a citrusy spice character. It was still holy basil, but tastier. The other different one had large leaves about the size of O.basilicum with the typical pink flowers. I didn't taste it yet. Pics soon...
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Post by cletus on Aug 12, 2012 20:53:08 GMT -5
It's pretty funny that I started this thread and a week later recognize apparent holy basil hybrids in Rick's garden! There were three of the white flowered, lemony flavored kinds. There was only one big leaf, short type. The short, big leaf type may not be a hybrid, but is nonetheless distinct. These distinct individuals self-seeded and are in an adjacent bed to most of the O. sanctums. It turns out that a few other different types of basil were planted in this bed last year. I'll ask him for the names again and post them cuz I forgot. One was thai basil, and another was a lemony variety. Richio from horizon herbs says that the holy basil (Kapoor) is the only variety of this tropical genus he knows to reseed in the temperate zone, and he knows basils. I thought the lemony, white flowered kind was just part of the diversity of the holy basil genome until Rick told me there was a lemony variety planted there last year. I believe it most likely is a hybrid of the holy basil with that lemon variety because of the hardy seed, lemony taste, and lush/vigorous growth.
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Post by cletus on Aug 12, 2012 21:01:35 GMT -5
This type is a good 7 inches shorter than all the other O. sanctums, but its leaves are much bigger. Flower color is the same (pink). I am holding the typical O.sanctum in the right of the picture. The taste of this one is milder than the other O.sanctums. This one was also in the bed where the other types were planted last year, so it could be a hybrid or perhaps the other basil pollens mutated the O.sanctum seed (see the Michurin thread). Or it could just be a part of the O.sanctum diversity, but it did show up in the adjacent bed with the other different types. Attachments:
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Post by cletus on Aug 12, 2012 21:10:34 GMT -5
Again the typical holy basil individual is in my hand in the bottom right. You can see the differences right away with this variety. Smoother, smaller, pointier, less hairy leaves, and white flowers. The taste was also pretty distinct, a smoother lemon flavor but still with a certain hint of spice. The spiceyness is different but somewhat reminds you of holy basil. The three of these individuals that showed up are all a good 8-10 inches taller than the O.sanctums. What do you all think? Had any similar experiences? I think this is a call to plant all types of basils amongst the holy basil and see what evolves naturally. Attachments:
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Post by cletus on Aug 12, 2012 23:24:32 GMT -5
I'll ask him again about what were the exact varieties he had planted there. I've never grown lemon basil, O.americanum. But after looking at O.americanum images I have to conclude that the lemony basil in his garden is at least related to it. Not having tasted O.americanum, I can't distinguish based on that. Could O.americanum have hardy seed too, or could it be a hybrid? I think O.americanum has a different chromosome number though...in which case it probably wouldn't reseed next year (like the columnar basils). Too early to tell, I need to find out more about the species differences. If its not a hybrid and reseeds like it apparently might, then I have a decent culinary basil that reseeds to start improving!
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Post by Drahkk on Aug 13, 2012 18:39:18 GMT -5
I don't know about the chromosome count, but if what you've got is lemony but still spicy, it sounds like you've got a cross of some type. I bought lemon basil by mistake about six or seven years ago. What I remember is that it was VERY lemony, to the point of smelling more like Pledge than basil. Used some in salads, but not much else. Not sure if it reseeded, though; I just had a tiny garden plot behind a townhouse apartment at the time, and we moved that December.
MB
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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 14, 2012 17:32:26 GMT -5
Doh! I misspelled "Ocimum" in the thread title and this should be in the breeding section. Thanks for the info, blueadzuki. That is interesting that O.sanctum is a purported ancestor for basilicum. It wouldn't surprise me. Some more googling revealed that they are both naturally occurring tetraploids with 2n=48, so thats a good start. Another link mentioned a hybrid between O.gratissimum x suave, with partially fertile F1s, another cross I can't remember. I think with a little creative play my objective is doable. Until I get more controlled and documented version of this experiment, for now its just something else to do with the sweet basil flowers. It took me a few minutes to look up that cross mostly because I still know O.suave as Ocimum kilimandscharicum. That sounds like a pretty tought cross to me; I've grown O. gratissimum and it is so different from most of the other basil species I've played around with I always assumed it was much less much more distantly related than any of the others. Actually if you could get a cross between O. gratissimum and anything else it would be great, since Clove basil is one of the few that is truly perrenial (provided it doesn't freeze) most other, once the flowers come in and the seed spike is up, that's it plant is on it's way out. But my Clove basil lasted 5 years and made fresh flowers and seeds each and every one. The stuff gets enormous (or why they also call it "tree basil") I'd probably still have mine, if I hadn't got tired of coaxing it through each winter (as soon as it came in, it would get infested with whitefly on a level that nothing seemed to shift and would spend most of the winter looking near dead with just enough left alive in the spring to grow it back to it's former size and flower. eventually I just gave up on the thing decided to let it go for the protection of my other plants (the witefly would set up based on the plant and then infest everything else) and let it freeze. |
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Post by cletus on Aug 14, 2012 21:55:49 GMT -5
That clove basil sounds awesome. I will have to plant one in Chile when I go there. Yea I was just googling around for Ocimum hybrid evidence, there were a handful of examples. The weird thing is it was just a few days before noticing the interesting lemony basil that self-seeded in my friend Rick's garden. Whatever it is, it is more suited to culinary use than the holy basil (Kapoor) and apparently has seed hardiness. Next year I'll transplant diverse Ocimums into the holy basil patches to try to further diversify and see what wants to evolve.
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Post by imgrimmer on Jun 19, 2013 7:49:20 GMT -5
What happened to your Basil hybrid? Do you have already pictures taken this year?
I am curious about it. I just planted a lot of different basil types from different sources into my garden to test and maybe cross for a better adapted type. Most of them are Ocimum basilicum, but some are O. x citriodorum.
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. I think crosses between O. basilicum vars and O. americanum vars could suss out some basils that are both fertile and much more winter hardy and disease resistant than what we have available.. 
