bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Nov 10, 2012 6:00:53 GMT -5
I've finally manage to procure some Actinidia arguta seed for the 'hardy kiwi' or 'kiwai', 'Tara vine' etc. I bought around 12 seeds from the USA earlier this summer but despite stratifying some of the seed in the fridge, got no germination, nor from sowing directly under steady bottom heat. I now have a hundred seeds from a German supplier, but don't want to waste them. So I'd welcome advice on how best to sow them. Should I sow them now and put the pots somewhere to be stratified during winter? Or keep them in the fridge in the packet (in a jar) until spring and then sow them? How high should germination temperature be? I've seen one site which said keep them at only 10C, and another that said between 20C and 25C! Quite a difference. If I am lucky enough to get germination, how many are likely to be male and how many female? Should be 50/50 but I read something that said the majority of seedlings are male! And how should I treat the new seedlings? How long before it is safe to plant out in permanent positions? I would really appreciate advice from those who have successfully grown these.
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Post by raymondo on Nov 10, 2012 15:52:50 GMT -5
I've only grown A. deliciosa from seed, which was relatively straight forward. I sowed them late winter and they came up in spring. The pot was outside. I have kept five of those plants. They are still in pots and over seven years old. Only one has flowered so far. It is male. I wanted to wait until I knew what they were before planting out. I'm beginning to wonder whether they will flower at all.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Mar 21, 2013 12:34:23 GMT -5
Went to a garden store today and was delighted to find two kinds of Actinidia arguta, a self fertile one called Wiki, and a red fruited one called 'Ken's Red', in male and female versions. Well grown plants in large pots and a very reasonable price!
I will still be sowing my seeds very soon now which have been in the fridge all winter. If they germinate that will be good as I can hopefully get some more females from them.
I sowed Actinidia polygama earlier this spring (under gentle heat) and only one has germinated. I guess there is still time though I don't know if I should give them a cold spell in the fridge and bring them out again. I have never had much success with stratifying.
I'm still trying to find an effective way of doing cuttings from the established plants as neither green cuttings, nor ripe ones, nor layering seemed to work. Now I've finally got a stock, I would like to increase them.
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Post by mwamsley on Mar 21, 2013 12:58:13 GMT -5
In my experience, green cuttings of A. arguta, A. polygama, and A. kolomikta are fairly easy to root mid-summer with bottom heat and HIGH humidity (misters). A. deliciosa is a little harder to do and A. chinensis is VERY hard to root.
I have grafted a number of A. chinensis onto one 'Ken's Red', but they are growing very weak. It makes me think there is some sort of incompatibility.
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Post by rowan on Mar 21, 2013 14:17:48 GMT -5
Don't bother to stratify kiwi seeds, they germinate well when you plant them just about when things start warming in spring, they come up like weeds.Can't help with the male/female thing though, most of my maturing plants (from three species) died this summer before flowering for the first time and the rest are in such poor condition that I doubt that they will flower this coming spring/summer.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Mar 22, 2013 4:11:51 GMT -5
most of my maturing plants (from three species) died this summer before flowering for the first time and the rest are in such poor condition that I doubt that they will flower this coming spring/summer. Any idea why this has happened? I kept my previous Kiwai (Issai) going for three years with a few decent fruit in the second year, but on the third spring the leaves opened and then went brown and died, and the whole plant was dead. Still not sure why. As I have new plants I want to try to get them well established. They are supposed to be very hardy, but maybe they don't like the heavy clay soil we have here. What soil are you growing them in? I'm thinking about working in lots of sand and gravel where I plant the new ones, though the cultivation instructions say they like humid soil. Anyone growing these successfully over several years? In what conditions? Again, the books say they come from humid cool forests in China, but I would think that means acid soil? Though the books say lime is ok.
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Post by mwamsley on Mar 22, 2013 10:05:51 GMT -5
Kiwis get root rot easily if the base of the plant gets covered with moist soil or is planted too deep. They will die within days, it's very dramatic. But they need plenty of water during warm dry spells.
I have some that are nearly 15 years old, in acid soil with a visible "crown." Very light on nitrogen. I planted a banana near a 6 year old kiwi vine and ended up killing the vine with too much nitrogen. Also, in my experience, males are much weaker (haha) and should be babied (haha) for quite some time.
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Post by mwamsley on Mar 22, 2013 10:27:27 GMT -5
This is my north-facing kiwi (arguta/kolomikta) "wall" before I pruned and trained them:
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Post by rowan on Mar 22, 2013 13:56:03 GMT -5
The reason mine died is that we had a hot and ferocious summer this year that broke all records. The plants just can't take the heat and they don't really like town water, I guess because of the chlorine perhaps.
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Mar 24, 2013 5:29:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice and that great photo! I really hope I can get mine to grow like that. Looks like I should certainly work a lot of grit or other drainage medium into our heavy soil before planting and then not too deeply! I'm planning on planting them at the top of a south facing slope backed on the north by a steep bank. I'll give them some sort of trellis or wire framework to grow on. I've got three plants, the Red and Wiki females and a single male. How close apart should I plant them. I was originally thinking of the two females at each of a 4 metre by one metre bed, with the male in the middle, to give space to grow. Or is that not close enough? I see some people were talking here about growing as many as ten separate plants.
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Post by khoomeizhi on Mar 24, 2013 6:54:20 GMT -5
Also, in my experience, males are much weaker (haha) and should be babied (haha) for quite some time. i've definitely noticed this, too. there are plantings at several of the edible parks n town here, but the males have all died. makes me wonder if it isn't at least partly because the same male variety keeps getting asexually reproduced, and if seed-grown males might do better. got seeds (supposed to be hardy kiwi) from bountiful gardens a couple years ago...the only survivor is a fuzzy kiwi, it seems.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 24, 2013 9:16:57 GMT -5
I found some 'kiwi berries' in the store, I think they are supposed to be A. arguta. Small hairless green kiwi-fruits with a good taste that can be eaten as a whole. Not bad, only quite expensive... (saved some seed, but I don't think I'll ever have place to grow them)
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bertiefox
gardener
There's always tomorrow!
Posts: 236
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Post by bertiefox on Mar 25, 2013 5:52:53 GMT -5
I found some 'kiwi berries' in the store, I think they are supposed to be A. arguta. Small hairless green kiwi-fruits with a good taste that can be eaten as a whole. Not bad, only quite expensive... (saved some seed, but I don't think I'll ever have place to grow them) Just wonder what kind of store? Supermarket? I've been looking for these to buy for the seed for some time but never seen the fruit for sale, and as we are next door in France it could be that some of our stores might be stocking them. Fresh seed generally germinates much better than those which have been dried and packaged.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 25, 2013 6:06:31 GMT -5
Regular Carrefour supermarket, very big one here in Antwerp. I've seen them in more small vegetable grocery shops too sometimes, but they're quite rare. I don't know the name of the variety but I don't think it can be anything but A. arguta.
If you want some seeds I can send them...
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