purple seeds in golden sweet pea

[hortusbrambonii]

I do have 'golden sweet' snow peas, of which I save the seeds again for next year, and I found a pod with almost completely purple seeds this year.

It seems like there are some specialist of pea genetics here. What do you think?ould they come back as a purple-seeded golden-podded pea? Or are they just a mistake that won't come back true?

[robertb]

Try it and see. The purple colouration is present in the seeds, normally as speckles. I've never seen completely purple seeds, so you could have a mutation there.

[hortusbrambonii]

I'll definitely try to get them into seed next year. The question is, if it indeed is a mutation that breeds true and gives a yellow-podded purple-seeded snowpea, will a population stemming from 7 seeds or so from one pod not be too inbred to use as the basis of my own new variety?

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I grew a purple-seeded pea this summer: Variety called Biskopens. It did poorly for me, producing less seed than planted, so I took the seed I had, and shared it widely. Perhaps other growers will have better luck with it than I did. I got the seed from Keen101, who has posted a photo:

[templeton]

Hortus,
Welcome.

There has been commercial work done on seed colour - the pea canning industry was concerned about discoloration in the liquid of canned peas.
But developers of snap peas and snow peas probably don't mind. If you are developing a line of peas for these uses, you're trying to stabilise the pod traits rather than the seed colour traits. So in theory it might be possible to have a line of true breeding snow peas with a number of different seed colours. It depends on how the breeder selects.

The JIC pisum database lists a dozen or so different genes for seed colour, most of which are influenced in their expression by other genes.

If the parents were identical in every other respect, I would suggest that seed colour variability is just a characteristic of that variety. Or maybe it's just a spontaneous mutation.
I've received seed of Yakumo snow peas from different sources that have had totally different seed colours. Haven't grown them out side by side - I haven't got enough room or time.

Since peas are inbreeders, if it is a new variety, even one pea seed is sufficient to start a new variety - peas don't need to outcross.

Have a look at rebsie fairholm's daughter of the soil blog, or Keens biolumo blog (or mine which is pretty rambling) for more info -
T

[ottawagardener]

I'm going through my seed supply and it turns out that I have some Austrian Field Peas from bountiful gardens: They are purple seeded or at least brown-purple.

[hortusbrambonii]

(Just call me Bram)

I suppose the parents were just 'golden sweet', and probably self-fertilised. Maybe there was still 'kelvedon wonder' flowering when the seeds were saved the year before, but that one is green in every aspect, and the fact that the coloring appeared in only one pod makes me think more of a mutation. If it would be some hybrid then the seeds will show a F2-variation next year I suppose?

If the taste is the same as the general 'golden sweet', and the color comes back true, I'm going to keep this line. If not I have or just more golden sweet or a worthless yellow-podded purple-seeded snowpea. Which I hope not...

[toad]

Hello Bram.

I had a similar experience some years ago. Wrote about it in my blog.
toads.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/colour-variation-in-golden-snow-pea/

Sowed the normal and solid purple seeds seperately, and got two rows of the same typical Golden Sweet
toads.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/update-color-variation-in-golden-sweet-snowpea/

But please do the experiment your self, as your seeds might be a mutation, where mine was not.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Yes, i would also say that it is within normal variation of the variety. Once in a while you get a pod that over expresses the purple splotching and all the seeds in the pod appear nearly fully purple. They will produce normal golden sweet pods the next generation. I had one two seasons ago, but it did not "breed true" since it only appears in this variety from environmental factors. Biskopens (red) and Purple Passion (dark purple) are the only varieties i know of that have the trait stabilised from genetics and not from environment.

daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2008/09/joy-of-genes-illustrated.html

daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2008/01/summary-of-purple-pea-project-2007.html

[hortusbrambonii]

Hmm, this sounds less encouraging... Very interesting links though, thanks! I'm just a rooky in the pea-breeding department with my seed-saved 'golden sweet' compared to both of you...

I'll try anyway, and if it's just 'over-expressing' I'll have one small extra row of golden sweet. I don't mind that at all, they taste quite good and look great...

Is 'biskopens' the same we call 'blauwschokkers' in dutch?

[toad]

Dec 21, 2012 17:34:53 GMT -5 hortusbrambonii said:

Is 'biskopens' the same we call 'blauwschokkers' in dutch?

No, 'Biskopens gråärt' is an old swedish cultivar. The pods are green and the seeds are solid purple. The pod is stringless, I like to eat it when the peas are full size, cutting the pods into the salad. And then Biskopens isn't bitter to my taste. I find Blauwschokkers too bitter to my taste buds.

[ottawagardener]

Mine were purple similar to Rebsie link II

[templeton]

OK. This is now officially spooky. After reading this post over a morning coffee, feeling guilty for putting it off for so long I just went out to harvest my pea growouts, pulled a bunch of Delta Louisa dwarf snows, and there were two pods with deep purple peas amongst the normal pale speckled Delta Louisa seeds!

Normally I would just shove the whole pods into a seed envelope, But I had grown these DLs next to some semi-leafless field peas, and having left them for so long it was a bit difficult to see which pod belonged to which variety. The field pea seeds are distinctive (smooth, round, pale), so I was opening the pods to make sure I hadn't made a mistake.
Two pods had purple peas, can't tell if they were from the same plant, since I just plucked the pods off a handful of dried stalks - damn!
I've grown these for I think 4 generations, and these are the first purples to turn up.

[cue spooky music]
Remarkable coincidence [lifts one eyebrow]? or simultaneous Universal Purple Pisum Seed Conspiracy (UPPSEC) sleeper cell emergence?... You be the judge... (fade to picture of mayan calendar, etc etc)
T

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[ottawagardener]

Now I want to grow these golden sweet peas.

I do grow a gold podded purple snow pea but it has smooth, yellow seeds, no purple blotches in sight. On the other hand, the arborgast are much the same coloration.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I'm going with the UPPSEC sleeper cell emergence.

I had some purple seeds show up in my F1 grow-out of a yellow snow X purple snap pea. I attributed it to being sloppy and accidentally harvesting a biskopens pod which was grown in the next row over. Now I'm paranoid.