Recommendations for pole beans (dry)

[mickey]

last year we grew Kentucky Wonder in the three sisters garden, and we liked them. They did so well that they broke down the corn before the beans got dry, so we lost a lot of beans. So this year I'm going to use bean poles to support the plants. We are by-passing the greenbean stage for the dry beans. we would like to try an old bean that was used in the old three sisters patches.
PS, someone last year suggested a bean with an Indian name that I have forgotten.

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[oxbowfarm]

Nice patch Mickey! I'll send you some Octarora Cornfield. They were the best behaved of the pole beans I've tried three sisters with.

They grew very well and productively but didn't drag the corn down. I think you can grow them on the corn quite safely without the bean poles.

[mickey]

Feb 18, 2013 19:22:19 GMT -5 oxbowfarm said:

Nice patch Mickey! I'll send you some Octarora Cornfield. They were the best behaved of the pole beans I've tried three sisters with.

They grew very well and productively but didn't drag the corn down. I think you can grow them on the corn quite safely without the bean poles.

Thank you
Last year was a learning experience, I think I let the corn get too far along before I planted the beans and the spacing was too close together. I was going from the plans for a much smaller three sisters patch that I had found on the web.

[oxbowfarm]

In the mail!

[12540dumont]

I received a book on this, and basically I discovered that all of these crops were meant to eat dry.
So something like the Cornfield Bean from Adaptive Seeds,
A flour or flint corn (nothing wimpy),
and a squash that takes a long time.

So, no green beans, no sweet corn, no zukes.

My best luck with this idea has been when I used Texas Gourdseed or Posole corn (the stuff is huge). I used Borlotto Lamon Beans, but I think Rattlesnake is traditional enough. I used my Winter Luxury Pie Pumpkins or Little Greenseed as the squash. I will say right now that the thing was a tangled mess by October. I sorted it out by harvesting the pumpkins first. I planted pumpkins only on 2 sides of the plot, as the other 2 sides are major access areas. I needed an extra 4 feet past the corn for the pumpkins to run. I planted the corn on 18" centers, 24" between rows (offset). I also only put beans on the outside rows. My bed was 50' long.

Under no circumstances try to use Carol Deppe's or Tohono O'odham corn in these plots. It's way too short, and is done too quick. Also stay away from any squash that takes longer than your corn. Weed thoroughly as soon as the corn comes up and before you plant your beans or squash, as you won't be able to get to the center of the plot until the end. Did I say tangled? Think jungle...Hey, the gophers did not get any squash or beans when planted with corn.

[davida]

Planting an 800 to 1000 square feet area of the three sisters is the way that my garden became infested with squash bugs and stink bugs. As Holly said, it became a jungle and our jungle contained thousands of squash and stink bugs. Our area that was suppose to make hundreds of pounds of food for the winter was burned with a propane flame thrower. We do not use any chemicals but I was certainly tempted. And we did not grow any melons or squash in 2012 in the attempt to help the problem. So have an insect control plan in place before creating your "jungle".

[steev]

Sounds like a good idea to have something that wants to eat the pests. Could chickens or guineas have worked?

[davida]

Feb 20, 2013 20:52:11 GMT -5 steev said:

Sounds like a good idea to have something that wants to eat the pests. Could chickens or guineas have worked?

The chickens would not touch them. Totally ignored both the squash and stink bugs. We do not have guineas yet but are thinking about getting some.

[oxbowfarm]

I do think that three sisters as advised in most of the little articles I've seen is not an accurate reflection of the ancient poly culture. I'm pretty sure that corn was grown in different ways in different climates, primarily based on how much water they could expect.

The main way I feel that most people screw up three sisters is planting too much corn too close together. Native American corn hills were pretty far apart, at least here in the northeast. If you plant a bunch of corn too close, it shades out the squash completely and it makes virtually no yield. You also need to use the right beans and the right corn. Sweet corn and green beans are no good cause you shouldn't be in there till everythings drying down.

I have had good luck with short season flints like the Cascade Series, Abenaki, etc. That's the traditional corn in this area, but you have to use the right beans on them. Best behaved one I've used so far is Octarora Cornfield. Since it's a "Quaker bean" from PA, that means it was most likely originally a Lenape or Susquehannock bean. So it makes sense that it works well for the three sisters system on Northern Flints.

[mickey]

Thank you, I had searched the web for Octarora Cornfield bean and the only thing I had found about them was a article on the Amish cooking them. So I thought ah ha PA. is the place the may have come from. now you confirmed that for me. I have some flour corns on order, I'll send you some when it comes in. I also have some dent corn called "Earth Tones" that We grew last year if you would like some of that, let me know.

[mickey]

Feb 19, 2013 21:08:07 GMT -5 oxbowfarm said:

In the mail!

Got them today.

[mickey]

I have a corn that grows to 15 feet, any other beans that some one can suggest.

[zeedman]

In my climate, the Three Sisters method has one serious issue - late summer rainfall. If the dry beans are left on the vine too long & get soaked a few times, many will be lost to mold or rot. If I am not mistaken, Moline has similar late summer weather. I would suggest a pole bean whose dry pods demonstrate good moisture resistance, such as those with tight shrink-down hulls. Taking into account the DTM of the corn & when the beans would be planted, the beans chosen should dry down at close to the same time. "True Red Cranberry" might be a good candidate.

Mickey, I have another bean, "Striped Cornfield", that might do well. While I did not grow it on corn, the vines were very restrained, and it had one of the highest dry seed yields of any bean I've grown... about 14 ounces per plant. If you would like to try it, just let me know.

[mickey]

Thank you yes I would like to try them. I sent you a PM

[paquebot]

Any greasy bean should work with corn since I've never had one grow more than about 5' no matter what it was put on. Blue Greasy, Cherokee Greasy, Earl Thompson Greasy, Red Striped Greasy and Tennessee Greasy are 5 which I've grown. Blue Shackamaxon, Cherokee Black, Cherokee Trail of Tears, Jesse Taylor, and Tennessee Cornfield are also some which I have and top off at about 5'.

Martin