Bitter melon

[billw]

Is anyone out there working with bitter melon? I am frustrated every year trying to grow it, so I have assembled about thirty varieties and am going to do a large trial and crossing this year. I don't anticipate great success, given that it is a tropical melon, but if I can get even just a little more tolerance for cool weather, it would be a big improvement.

[steev]

I grew three varieties last year; got one puny fruit. Have transplants seeded this year, have one puny sprout. We'll see, but I am less optimistic.

[castanea]

I've grown them a couple of times. Not very prolific. Many varieties are long season, plus, even the short season varieties don't really start growing until it gets consistently warm at night

[zeedman]

Although bitter melon does like warm temperatures, it will grow in much of the temperate U.S.. They have done surprisingly well here in Wisconsin. I grow 4 varieties in rotation, plus a Chinese hybrid that I am trying to stabilize. They have all produced well, although some varieties tend to bear earlier & more heavily. Last year was the 4th year of growing the former Chinese hybrid, and it gets better each year... I froze enough to last all winter, and gave buckets away.





I start the seeds early in peat strips (in a temperature-controlled germinator at a constant 80F. degrees) then transplant them into the garden, at 24" spacing between plants. The soil where I garden now is fertile, but when I gardened on less fertile soil, I buried a shovel of compost between plants. At this spacing, the vines will densely cover a 6 foot trellis. I always plant them on either the North or West side of the garden, since they are an effective wind break in late summer. When the vines are in full bloom, they give off a wonderful scent.



I have to admit, having lived in Puget Sound in the 70's, that bitter melon - like limas & other heat lovers - could be tough to grow in coastal Washington (or anywhere night temps drop below 50F). If at all possible, plant them where they will be sheltered from cool sea breezes. The hardiest bitter melon I have grown was a small-fruited variety once carried by Evergreen Y. H., called simply "Thailand". It did well even in cool summers, but the fruit were exceptionally bitter... too bitter for my taste, I grew them for a Filipino friend who pickled them.

[billw]

Thanks zeedman.

I think maybe we talked bitter melon over at iDig at some point, as I recognize that hedge. That's my goal! My bitter melons look very sad compared to that.

I'll start seeds in the greenhouse this week, with the goal of planting them out along a south-facing wall in June. My usual result is a couple of plants that leaf out reasonably well to about 4-5' tall, suffer badly from mildew, and produce 3-4 fruits at best.

I hope that, with so many varieties, I can find some that do a little better and focus on crossing those for a few years, letting nature work its magic.

The downside is that I am probably going to have to forego eating any, so that I can get those seeds!

I looked around for the Thailand variety, but couldn't find it. Not surprising, since it makes for such a broad search term.

Spindle or "Japan Spindle" is my benchmark variety - that is the best of the six varieties that I have already tried here. These are the varieties that I am trying this year. Based on previous results, I expect that most won't even continue to grow once taken out of the greenhouse - they'll just sit there sullenly until the mildew gets them.

Bitter Melon, Aman Green
Bitter Melon, Ant
Bitter Melon, Baby Doll
Bitter Melon, Beauty Winner
Bitter Melon, Best Champion
Bitter Melon, Deva
Bitter Melon, Extra Jumbo
Bitter Melon, Green
Bitter Melon, Green Giant
Bitter Melon, Green Skin
Bitter Melon, Green Queen
Bitter Melon, Hong Kong Green
Bitter Melon, India
Bitter Melon, India Baby
Bitter Melon, India Long Green
Bitter Melon, India Long White
Bitter Melon, India Pearl
Bitter Melon, Japan Long
Bitter Melon, Long
Bitter Melon, Mara
Bitter Melon, Nanha
Bitter Melon, Nayan Long
Bitter Melon, Southern Money Maker
Bitter Melon, Spindle
Bitter Melon, Tai Guo
Bitter Melon, Taiwan Large
Bitter Melon, Taiwan White
Bitter Melon, White Pearl
Bitter Melon, White Vivek

[zeedman]

Wow... that's a lot of different varieties. I've always wanted to try a broad trial of many varieties, but then I couldn't save pure seed from any of them. Yeah, I've noticed that "pure seed" seems to be blasphemy here, but I am trying to preserve varieties so others can use them. "Thailand", for example, was dropped by Evergreen, but I am still growing it for seed... if you would like to try it, PM your address, and I'll send some out.

Of the varieties you list, the description for "Ant" resembles that of "Thailand". It wouldn't surprise me if they are the same, sometimes varieties are labeled 'hybrid' just to discourage seed saving. I have been considering growing it, just to see if the two varieties are identical.

Of the rest, I've only grown "Taiwan Large", which is one of the varieties in my rotation. It has good sized fruit, but it is not really early, and is usually only moderately productive for me. Last year was record heat, though, so it did especially well... which I realize is a poor testimonial to its cool tolerance. But it has exceptionally thick walls, has only moderate bitterness, and freezes well, which are the reasons I still grow it.

Taiwan Large (bottom), Chinese dehybridizing selection (top)

I'm wondering if the selection I'm trying to dehybridize would do well for you. It is early, and since I am growing it in Wisconsin, I have been selecting it for that trait (albeit unintentionally). It is only moderately bitter, and has a very heavy yield; so even if the yield were reduced by a less than ideal climate, it should still perform fairly well. I could send you some of that as well; both are 2012 seed.

Good luck with your land race experiment, that might well be the path to finding (or developing) a bitter melon that will grow well in your climate.

[castanea]

The problem we have here in this part of the the California central valley is cool nights. Even if we have a 100 degree day, we might have a 60 degree night. They don't like cool nights. In most of the Midwest, you have warmer summer nights than we do.

[rudy]

Apr 4, 2013 19:42:10 GMT -5 billw said:

Is anyone out there working with bitter melon? I am frustrated every year trying to grow it, so I have assembled about thirty varieties and am going to do a large trial and crossing this year. I don't anticipate great success, given that it is a tropical melon, but if I can get even just a little more tolerance for cool weather, it would be a big improvement.

If the Bitter Melon does't seem to grow when smaller, check for Spider Mites.   A dusting of Sevin will control the Spider Mites.

[zeedman]

Glad to see this thread revived. I am interested in hearing the results of the mass trial... Bill, how did they do? Were you successful in getting seed from any of the cultivars you grew?

[billw]

I got seed from seven varieties last year - two without any protection and five with the last minute application of plastic draped over the plant for a couple weeks. Not a lot of seed, as only the first few fruits produced on each plant got to ripeness, but still plenty to work with. The two that got to seed without any help were Ant and your Thai variety, zeedman.

So, the plan for this year is to only plant out seeds obtained from those seven varieties (which should already be crossed), intermix them some more, and again take seed from every fruit that ripens. If that goes well, then next year I will start being more selective.

I'm also going to grow a few more plants of Ant and Thai and do some hand crosses between those two.

[blueadzuki]

I usually don't grow bitter melon as I do not really care for the taste ( I like the red pulp in ripe ones in small doses added to fruit smoothies, but as you point out, getting them to that stage up here in the north is a long order). But. being the inveterate seed saver I am, I DO often pick up any bitter melons I see in Chinatown that have gotten a little past their vegetable prime and started to soften up, so I have a fair amount of seed lying around. Probably my most impressive find is one I got some time last year that was sitting on top of a pile; a black seeded one almost the size of a baseball bat (and probably quite a bit thicker). Probably should try that one out some time.
As for the climate thing all I can say is that there must be SOME sort of bitter melon that is good for up north. At some points around the edge of Columbus Park (in Manhattan's Chinatown) there are spots where some of the residents have talked the park commission into letting them plant some vegetables next to the normal ornamental border. And those veggies DO usually contain several bitter melon vines. Plus, bitter melon seedlings and seed packets are a common item for sale in the florist shops and supermarkets, and I doubt they would be decent sellers if they did not actually grow reasonably well (though I suppose that, as most people who eat bitter melons do so when they are still unripe, and most home gardeners are not necessarily looking to save seed some, of those may be strains that can make fruit here in time but not mature them). I also remember seeding fully ripe bitter melons at the agricultural experimentation station in Geneva New York back in college (actually I remember filling my veggie suitcase with them), so there are short season ones out there.

[maisazzurro]

I enjoy bitter melon, but not a good grower, yet. Chicago Chinatown and Bridgeport neighborhood. Residents grew bitter melon every year on their fences or on trellis systems. Always grown vertically. Pretty good harvest. Even seen ripe orange ones. The varieties look much like the common hybrid types seen at the market. I have relatives that have better luck with it than I do, but the garden I was working with was in the shade, so conditions were not optimal. Seed packs are seen for sale in Asian groceries frequently. It is something I always start indoor first and plant during pepper planting. I often see the wrinkly small Indian variety or the large smooth East Asian Hybrid types in our grocery stores and seed packs.

Culinary, we usually cut them, scrub the insides with salt, soak, rinse, than place in vinegar. Sometimes added to eggs or a vegetable stirfry called pinakbet (you don't have to use the fermented fish or shrimp paste if you do not like, our version uses calabaza). My Mother-in-Law always warms not to eat bitter melon if you are pregnant.

[zeedman]

Jan 29, 2016 18:44:13 GMT -5 maisazzurro said:

Culinary, we usually cut them, scrub the insides with salt, soak, rinse, than place in vinegar. Sometimes added to eggs or a vegetable stirfry called pinakbet (you don't have to use the fermented fish or shrimp paste if you do not like, our version uses calabaza). My Mother-in-Law always warms not to eat bitter melon if you are pregnant.

Mmmm... pinakbet, my favorite Filipino dish (except for lumpia). We prepare it without bitter melon, though. It does really seem to go well with eggs; the bitter melon & egg skillet, or bitter melon, egg, and chicken soup, are the only ways I find it to be palatable. Some of our Filipino friends actually prefer the young leaves & vine tips to the melons, they are happy to trim my vines back in late summer. I'm told the leaves make a good tea.

[blueadzuki]

I also always a little surprised so few people realize the ripe ones are themselves useful, that that red gunk around the seeds is quite sweet and probably quite good for you (it is, for all intents and purposes, a ersatz Gac fruit) I have heard people in India make fruit salad out of it (not that I have ever seen a recipe). I tend to use it in smoothies. (and yes I do remove the actual seeds first, I know those are poisonous). Plus it is often possible to get it for very cheap to free (a lot of Chinese veggie dealers consider ripening bitter melon as spoiling produce and sell it at a deep discount.)

I've seen the vines show up in Chinatown, so I ASSUME they can grow up here. At least I hope so, since I have seed from an exceptional fruit to play around with (found it at a Chinatown market, only bitter melon fruit I ever saw that was longer than my whole arm!)

[zeedman]

Having heard that the red pulp was edible, I tasted it... it was surprisingly sweet, given the bitterness of the fruit which surrounds it. So that is what Gac tastes like??? (For some reason, Gac makes me think of Klingons... once a Treky, always a Treky)  The pulp can be cooked with rice to turn it red. When I harvest bitter melon seed, I usually dry it on several layers of paper, with the pulp still attached. Once the pulp has dried completely, the seed can be pried out, and comes out clean. To be honest, I've never tried making dried pulp, other than as a byproduct of seed production; that might be a good project for this summer.

Last year, I grew a new bitter melon, from seed obtained in the same trade as the Chinese variety I've been trying to de-hybridize. The seed was about 10 years old, but still in its original sealed packaging, so a few were still viable. The melons were short, very wide, and conical - almost top-shaped. The walls were very thick, but I didn't eat any, since I was trying to save them all for seed. I plan to grow it this year in greater quantity, to see if the fruit shape is stable, to find out whether I can shorten the DTM - and of course, to taste it. I noticed something odd, that when ripe, the fruits stayed closed, and began to rot with the seeds still inside. All of the other bitter melons I grow open & spill their seeds when ripe.