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Post by cletus on Apr 14, 2013 18:44:49 GMT -5
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Post by cletus on Apr 14, 2013 21:32:03 GMT -5
Some good info "Intergeneric hybrids in Rosaceae subtribe Pyrinae": www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=263461It looks like many other hybrids exist in Pyrinae such as Crataegus × Pyrus, Cydonia × Malus, Cydonia × Pyrus, etc. The above article mentions some of these hybrids have horticultural and orchard potential. In terms of breeding, a lot of fascinating things besides fire blight resistance come to mind with these widely cultivated and diverse genera. |
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Post by cletus on Apr 19, 2013 12:11:19 GMT -5
From the myfolia link:
‘Eliit’ Sorbus aucuparia x Pyrus sp.
‘Zoltaja’ Sorbus aucuparia x Pyrus sp.
‘Titaan’ ‘Burka’ x Malus sp. x Pyrus sp.
‘Granatnaja’ Sorbus aucuparia x Crataegus sanguinea
‘Likjornaja’ Sorbus aucuparia x Aronia melanocarpa
‘Burka’ Sorbus aucuparia x [Sorbus aria x Aronia arbutifolia]
‘Dessertnaja’ ‘Likjornaja’ x Mespilus germanica
‘Rubinovaja’ Sorbus acuparia x Pyrus communis
‘Krassavitsa’ Sorbus acuparia x Pyrus communis
‘Nurmes’ Sorbus aucuparia
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Post by cletus on Apr 19, 2013 12:21:52 GMT -5
Do any of you all have a favorite Sorbus that you might think a good candidate for this type of experiment? I'm thinking of starting seed from asian pears, some of the better Malus sieversii, and various Sorbus types to do cross-pollination during the first year of flowering as per Michurin. Amelanchiar are pretty fireblight tolerant and tasty too. I'm not expecting miracles, just experimentation and opening up new lines of inquiry, but I believe there is a lot of potential.
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Post by castanea on Apr 19, 2013 19:35:16 GMT -5
My Shipova died from fireblight. It was however far more resistant than my pears and many of my apples.
I really liked the fruit. Something like an upscale pear.
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Post by cletus on Apr 20, 2013 8:43:15 GMT -5
Yummy I'm dying to try Shipova, I keep hearing how good it is. Where are you located, Castanea? I think I read it was S. intermediata which appeared to be almost immune to it, but the shipova cross was done with S. acupuncaria. That might not be correct though. It is this group, subtribe Pyrinae (formerly subfamily Maloideae) which is most afflicted with fireblight, but also interestingly has weak barriers to hybridization. I doubt the original Shipova crosses were done with fire blight resistant individuals of Malus, Pyrus either, but who knows. I'm really curious about some of those other Russian cultivars of intergeneric Pyrinae.
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Post by castanea on Apr 20, 2013 20:46:36 GMT -5
I'm in the California central valley near Sacramento.
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Post by MikeH on Apr 22, 2013 4:44:39 GMT -5
I have both Shipova and Ivan's Beauty. They're still young so neither has fruited. They are cold hardy though - we had some -20C plus temperatures with wind chills even lower and there wasn't even any dieback. With a bit of grafting luck, I'll have Sorbus domestica (thank you, steev) grafted onto OHxF 513. If the graft takes, I'll trench layer the tree to try to get the sorbus on its own root. Hopefully, I'll get a number of trees from the layering. Luther Burbank did some sorbus breeding work - www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1004398 and www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1004424It's interesting that Ivan's Belle is an aronia cross. Aronia seems to be another plant with interesting crossing possibilities. It's also been used as rootstock to produce a dwarf shipova. Dwarfing should produce fruit faster. Added: There's this thread on NAFEX: Aronia x Sorbus x Pyrus x Malus Hybrids - lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex/2007-January/024415.html. Also Sorbus Cultivars, Selections, and Hybrids from GRIN in Corvallis - www.ars-grin.gov/cor/catalogs/soracc.html |
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Post by cletus on Apr 25, 2013 14:22:59 GMT -5
So you guys get fire blight out there too? Bummer. Its seems to be omnipresent here in the east. Mike, cold hardiness was a main objective of Michurin's breeding work. Its looks like at least one variety of Shipova has been cultivated many generations prior from a natural hybrid in France. Good luck with the Sorbus and hybrids and keep us updated on your experience once they fruit. Domestica seems to have a good size fruit already, but I think it is more fire blight susceptible than some other Sorbus. If we can get all these different genus together there has got to be a lot of we can come up with.
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Post by MikeH on May 8, 2013 3:12:04 GMT -5
Good luck with the Sorbus and hybrids and keep us updated on your experience once they fruit. This is an exciting surprise from Ivan's Beauty. There are a half dozen more clusters like this. It's a long way to fruit but what a start.  |
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Post by cletus on May 9, 2013 11:38:10 GMT -5
Beatiful, Mike! Nice lush foliage too, seems thicker than the Sorbus I've seen. Flower away Sorboaronia!
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Post by MikeH on May 10, 2013 0:35:52 GMT -5
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Post by cletus on May 10, 2013 14:29:59 GMT -5
I'd guess it would root well from cuttings. Michurin trained his young hybrid fruiters early on to take well to cuttings. He trained the young hybrids so that after a few generations of vegetative cloning from cuttings, the organism became so well adapted to it that cuttings made in spring could be planted directly in the ground and form healthy roots that same season.
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Post by cletus on May 10, 2013 14:31:01 GMT -5
Also great comment in your signature, where is that from?
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Post by MikeH on May 10, 2013 15:37:47 GMT -5
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